150 convert Christians return to Hinduism in Himachal

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By: Ajai Srivastava
After_conversion

Shimla: It was a moment of pride for all those who believe in the basic values of Indian culture and fundamental rights when 151 men, women and children were given an opportunity to return to their original faith. They all belong to Scheduled Castes with fragile economic condition and were converted in to Christianity by allurements during past several decades. When their struggle to achieve equal social and economic status within the Christian community failed to yield results and they were just thrown away like used commodity, they realised the folly.

All India Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe Mahasangh, HP, in the vibrant leadership of its president Tarsem Bharti, showed them the path to return to Hinduism again. Braving heavy snowfall in all around Shimla on February 28, 2007, hundreds of people of all castes and faiths gathered at Sanatan Dharam Mandir to welcome their alienated brothers and sisters. david-couple.jpgThere were Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Valmikis and Ravidasis apart from other Hindus to greet them. The persons who returned back to Hinduism included one senior Pastor Tulku Ram, one old and hapless widow Lajja Devi, two young sisters Sanam Samta and Safar Samta, two brothers Ashok and Kishore and one couple Vikas David and Anita David along with their families. Everybody had his or her own story of deception and cheating by those who once came to them as saviour in white cloak.

lajja-devi.jpgDalit widow Lajja Devi (62), a resident of Kasumpati area in Shimla, while talking to HimVani, narrated her pathetic tale. She said, “I not only lost my young grandson Rakesh (28) but also my faith. The Pastor assured me that my beloved grandson, who was a serious patient of brain tumour, will be cured, provided we all bring belief in Jesus Christ. As he was the only earning member in my family of 15 and we had no reason to disbelieve the Pastor, we all got converted to Christianity. The Pastor also mislead us and threw the sacred Ganga Jal in the toilet and the idols and pictures of Gods and Goddesses were thrown in nearby nalla. But after a couple of days, Rakesh died.”

That was not the end of her story. She revealed, “After the death of Rakesh, the Pastor demanded Rs 2,000 from me to arrange for his burial and did not hesitate to demand Rs 5,000 for making a magnificent grave so that the soul of my grandson could rest in peace. I know how I managed this big amount to give them after losing my beloved. Now three and half years have passed, leave aside a magnificent grave, even a pucca grave has not taken shape. Having ruined me, the Pastor left me to my fate. I am feeling relieved after coming back home (Hinduism).”

While talking to HimVani, the former senior Pastor Tulku Ram became very emotional. He said, “I was literally cheated. In 1997, while I was doing my graduation, they (missionaries) contacted me and assured me a good job, provided I got converted. But after conversion, they sent me to Agape Bible College, Ludhiana, for one year training and then to G.F.A. College, Kumbnad (Kerala) for further one year training. I had little options at that time because of my fragile economic condition. Having appointed as Pastor, I started converting poor people, mostly ailing, by giving them assurance that they will be cured by bringing faith in Jesus and prayers.” He also revealed that his outfit ‘Masihi Sangati’ belonging to the Protestants had converted more than 1,000 people in Himachal Pradesh.

Tulku Ram said, “I spent nearly 10 years in Christianity and eight years as pastor, but my conscience never allowed me for that fake healing, although I converted about 50 people myself. I very well knew that nobody could be cured by that way and the Pope John Paul, who was suffering from Parkinson, was a great example before me. Now I was fed up with all these frauds and was ready to return to the fold of the faith to which my forefathers belong, when Mr. Bharti, (President of All India Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes Mahasangh, HP) contacted me.”

Replying to a pointed question, he said, “This was no religion but business. They used hapless people like me as tool to collect a gathering and would take snaps of them. By sending those photographs to their mentors abroad, they would fetch a lot of money to spend for the welfare of neo-converts. But the fact is that they never spent that money on the purpose.”

The tales of two brothers, Kishore (46) and Ashok (49) and two young sisters Sanam and Safar Samta are not much different from the story of the former Pastor. They were allured to convert by fake healers. In 1988 Kishore and Ashok got converted along with other members of the family by one Sister Sony who assured them that their younger sister Indu, who was suffering from stomach ulcer would get cured by prayers. Now 19 long years have passed, the patient is still suffering. Ashok also confirmed that after conversion, they did not get equal social status and had to face discrimination at many times, even within the Christian community.

samta-sisters.jpgSame thing occurred with the family of Sanam and Safar. Their grandmother was seriously ill and the fake healers in white cloak took advantage of that and got the whole family converted. The condition of that old lady did not improve by prayers in the Church. One Deepak was lured for free education to her daughter and one Chandan Pal was assured a job. But the promises were not kept. Now they all, after coming to their original home, are feeling good.

bharti.jpgThe programme, first of its kind in the history of this hill state, was organised under the aegis of All India SC and ST Mahasangh; HP and its president Tarsem Bharti played a key role in bringing them all to their original home. He said, “It is a question of human rights because they were basically cheated and left at the mercy of those who are known for their crafty designs.”

Mahant Surya Nathji and Swami Lalji Maharaj along with Sriniwas Murti, the Prant Pracharak of RSS and others washed the feet of all 150 persons, with their hands. After havan and shuddhi, all were presented with pictures of Hindu Gods and Goddesses, apart from religious books and Ganga Jal. Earlier to this, they all were brought to Sanatan Dharam Mandir in a Shobha Yatra. Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Sanatan Dharam Sabha, Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Sewa Bharti and other religious and nationalist organisations supported the cause.

The author can be contacted at ajaisri02 [at] yahoo [DOT] co [DOT] in .

88 COMMENTS

  1. This is realy a very nice and positive story… congrats to the reporter of this story Ajay Shrivastav ji…my dear friend Tarsem Bharti ji and all related to this operation..

    Story is very nice, but I am thinking on the other side… the very DARK side of this story…

    There is a very dark side of Hindu religion 'cos of that most people change there religion just for the sake of money, jabs and most important.. the "respect"… This is a bitter truth that due to caste system in our Hindu religion the S.C. community is under-privileged and this community dont have respect in the society… thats why tese people change there religion while thinking that they will get respect…. even meny more things like jobs, money etc…

    This is our duty to bring such type of people to the Streamline, so they can live life in Hindu religion respectfully….

    anybody want to comment or suggest… he or she is most welcome…

    With regards

    Surender Paul

    Lecturer (Journalism & Mass Communication)

    Makhanlal Chaturvedi National University Of Journalism & Mass Communication, BHOPAL

    Mobila 09993109267

  2. Whether it is Jesus or Buddha..they all preached love, peace and harmony.

    It was the fragmented social fabric of Hindu society which created a ground fertile for conversions either by coercion or by allure.

    I hope they don't face discrimination once again at the hands of a millennium old castiest society.

  3. best news of the day and best coverage in himachal and north zone.

    Thank's to Sanatan Dharam Mandir and all workers.

  4. I am not surprised. Ignorance of the Hindu culture is the reason why many Hindus deserting Hinduism.

    The moment they realize the importance of of our glorious culture, all who left will come back to Hinduism, like a new born craving for the touch of his/her birth mother.

    IGNORANCE IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL EVILS;

    KNOWLEDGE ERADICATES IGNORANCE.

  5. It is shame on the part of Christian missionaries in Himachal who are converting the poor people of the state to Christianity by allurements. Worst part is our media and government who are silent on this burning issue.

    There should be a strict law against such converters

    We should respect our religion

  6. Realy a positive development story and you are the only person who can take interest and all pains for doing the story.God is every where same and help his devotes not with prayer but with "KARAM" What ever we do positive or negative Fruit comes in our hand later or sooner.I read the whole story of every person who are narrating the tail now are feeling relaxed and they should be. I am remembring the Phrase…..GOd helps those who help themselves……..Person should be awere from those who are using them on the name of GOD. BUt i also feel happy that now they all came back to there own home with the help of people like you .I also Welcome to all of with my heart. Excellent story……………

  7. a great news…in this way we should throe away the abrahmic religions from our country and also reconvert out lost brothers and sisters….

  8. OM..

    Glory to Sanatan Dharma..

    We need many Tarsem Bhartis…sir u have done a great job…

    Please help people in rest of the nation also…

    Please…Sanatan Dharma needs a yoddha like you..

  9. Excellent news when coupled by the new anti-conversion laws enacted on Feb 21, 2007 in Himachal.

    Thanks to Shri Ajai Srivastava for covering it and Shri Tarsem Bharti ji for 'action'.

    Read more, Preparing for harvest

  10. So long we remain victims of castiest society (respect for a person based on the work he does et al and its association with inheritance) we can never be a developed society.

    Does bringing them back into the fold of Hinduism means there would be no caste based discrimination ???

    Are we heading away from the evils of castiesm ? No it is more and more pronounced these days.

    Rajput Samaj, Brahmin Samaj, Aggarwal Smaj, Maheshwari Samaj, Sood Samaj, Iyengars, Iyers, Chettiars, Kayasth Samaj..list is endless. And now these are all online.

    Just take a look at the rental classifieds in the Chennai edition of The Hindu..One finds requirements like "Brahmins only", "vegetarians only"..

    does it speak of a matured mindset ?

    Conversions by coercion/allure should be opposed but we have no right to smear other faiths given the muck we have accumulated in our own sanatan dharma. Hinduism propagates coexistence of all…let us not deviate from it.

  11. Namaskar,

    Congrulations to Shri Tarsem Bhartiji for leading people from deception,decoy,sleez. Now,reading the comments of an esteem reader, was just wondering, ' evils of Casteism'…we had enough of it….in the same comment, 'our own sanatan dharma. Hinduism propagates coexistence of all…let us not deviate ' lies the answer?

    Why not coexist and talk of the positives of Caste system.

    gurunath

    Bharat

  12. If people change religions due to a solid conviction, nothing can

    change their conversion. God is love, show God's love.

    If a person is converted due to allurment or force, the same force

    in another direction can sway the convert. Conversion has to

    take place from heart, and that person can't be changed even

    by the terror of death.

    I know pesonally a lot of highly educated Hindus from high caste,

    who came to believe in Jesus Christ. If somebody try to re-convert them, they will not be converted.

    Let believers of all religions may have a peaceful debate and present their religion and personal experience openly.

    When we take the measure of force, it is an inhuman approach to solve a spiritual issue. I pray that God may give peace to India

    and those political parties and leaders who are using religion is

    causing more harm than good to the country. India's image around

    the world is gradually changing as a country of religious

    radicals.

  13. I touch the feet of these great Dalit brothers and sisters with my head. May the divine Dharma which is eternal fulfill their four Purusharthas. May they get their desires fulfilled. May they prosper in their economic conditions. May they obtain Dharmic liberation. May Dharma sustain them. Pranams Tarsemji Kodi Kodi Pranams

  14. What is a 'positive caste system'..please elaborate.

    Will a person belonging to upper caste enter into a matrimonial alliance with a person belonging to a lower caste?

    After they have embraced Hinduism what class/caste they will be fitted into, because that's what we have been doing since time immemorial or

    is it taken that anybody enbracing Hinduism belongs to a completely different class much above the rest of chaturvarnas if that's what is implied by 'positive caste system' ?

  15. If Christinity and Islam is out of Indian system for good, there is no need to pray for Peace in India. When foregin bodies enter our body,anti-biotics are given to kill and drive them away. Christians and muslims are welcome to live in India as long as they behave like Parsis or Jews. Dear Mr.Christian, please appreciate our magnanimity, we allow you to speak here. Can we(Hindus) actually do that on your web sites or for that matter in places and countries dominated by Christians and Muslims? I am from Hyderabad, if one wears a Tilak and is on the streets in Old City(Muslim dominated), the safety of the subject is not guranted. I have had my share of 'Christian experiances' in USA.World's …(whateva) Democracy. I am sure you are aware of the atrocities of Crusaders ,spanish conquistadors, not to mention the Portugese in Goa dominion. Now, whats Pagan? We do not have an equvalent word for Pagan in any Indian language, forget practising…negative stuff like Pagan and Kafir. We do not have a word for these in any Indian language. World View is proptional to economic conditions. I request you to do some introspetion and revert back to Hindu Dharma, atleast I would appreciate if you can congrulate Shri Tarsem Bhartiji for the wonderful work he has done.

    Gurunath
    http://www.hinduyuva.com

  16. This is called the citizen journalism. Congrats to himvir of himvani. You have guts to call spade a spade.

  17. I know some people who have converted to Christianity, and all of them are basically brainwashed. They believe that the world is 6,000 years old and many other idiotic things which have no place in a scientific world.

    India needs to develop itself sociologically, scientifically, and economically so that its citizens would not fall prey to such religious zealots from abroad. Also, if a person has a true understanding of Hinduism and its deep philosophies and ancient history, nobody would ever want to convert to a spiritually bankrupt religion like Christianity.

    If you live in America, you'll see Christianity is losing adherents while the "non-religious" group is rapidly expanding. So why on Earth should India give up its spirituality for an intolerant religion only to become agnostic/atheistic in the end?

  18. Some of the posts in this forum smell of racial hatred. I am a Hindu but don't harbour a fanatic mindset.

    Instead of blaming others first of all we must look inwards to figure out the evil practices we have accumulated in Hinduism. For more than a millennium we treated a segment of people as untouchables and we continue to do so even today. Gap is further widened because of politics.

    Worst form of castiesm can still be seen in various parts of India and Himachal is no exception. I have the experience of seeing it in Kangra. Upper caste villagers will buy merchandise from a shop run by a lower caste person. They can wear shoes prepared by a local cobbler, can wear cloths stitched by a low caste tailor, can consume foodgrains grown in the fields of a low caste person but will not consume food cooked in their kitchen and avoid touching them or even coming closer to their shadows because they are 'achhoots'.

    But an upper caste man having a roving eye will not mind having sex with a lower caste woman..concept of untouchability vanishes in such case!!. Rapes of dalit women happen regularly in this country.

    Lower caste people have been embracing other religions because there was not respect for them in the degenerated Hindu society and many of them found solace in other faiths. We have no right to crib & cry if our brethren embrace other faiths because we don’t consider them equals while on the other hand conversion by coercion/allure should be opposed.

    We don’t want to treat them at par but if they embrace other faiths then it is seen as threat to Hinduism..strange mindset.

    But my question has still not been answered…which category of chaturvarnas these reconverts will be allocated ? Are we getting rid of this ancient practice of one class exercising supremacy over other and association of caste with inheritance ?. This for those who claim to know the scriptures like the back of their hand.

    It is true that in the past many atrocities took place on Hindu society but are we propagating seeking revenge for past actions?

    If Hindus believe that Christianity, Islam and Budhhism are anti-Hindu then why do our people make a beeline for immigrating to the western world or Middle East….once again it is a matter of convenience and it is money.

    Yes they believe in proselytizing their faiths but if one believes that one’s faith is strong then there is no need to change it, else custodians of Hinduism should not complain if some people feel disenchanted with it, either because of mistreatment or otherwise and hence embrace other faiths.

    It takes two to tango.

  19. Question for Mr. Gurunath,

    What makes you conclude that a country comprising of 100% Hindu population will have peace and prosperity. Atleast our history doesn't support this argument or intention.

    Please explain what do you mean by "people from other faiths are like foreign bodies to be treated by a dose of antibodies……"

    Going by you explanation of Hindu Rashtra (that's the impression I get..correct me if I am wrong) then we should talk about expanding India to all its ancient frontiers….Americas in the West (Mayans, Aztec and Incas were descendents of Indian tribes) and Java/Sumatra//Borneo (parts of navdweeps) and right upto Easter Islands, whole of Europe because Scandinavians are the descendents of races that originated in North India as well as Romas or Gypsies who dot entire Europe and originated in Rajasthan/Gujarat and Srilanka in South because Singhalese are the descendents of Northcentral Indian tribes.

    No country in the world can have peace if there is religious bigotry. Religion is a personal matter. One has no right to say that his/her faith is superior to others.

    I am not an expert on Hinduism but you probably know that many Hindu websites claim that Prophet Mohammed is nothing but Kalki Avatar (last of dashaavtaars). Even a Hindu priest has written a book which makes such claims.

    Hinduism or Sanatan Dharma being the oldest religion or way of life..please throw some light on the advent of Buddhism, Christianity and lately Islam..after all these people were Sanatan Dharmis originally. Please enlighten me on this.

  20. it is great. congrats to Tarsem Bharti & writer ajay shrivastava.

    main cause for convertion in to other religion from Hinduism is caste system. in 21st century world we must leave behind this cast system and all must get equal respect. i think it need a social reform to remove all such evils only then Hindu religion can flourish.

  21. I am a Hindu Yesu bhakata and I have not changed my religion yet I am a Yesu Bhakta, any one can be followere of christ with out changing Religion, Faith Come from Heart not by changin religion, I condame the act of conversion or reconversion also.

    Indians have lived a long civilized life united by a common culture. This culture has been characterized by a remarkable continuity for many centuries. During the course of this long history numerous religious practices developed in India. A large number of people hold the Vedas as the source of their religion, they are Hindus. A considerable section of our country men reject the Vedic authority, but they are also Hindus. A majority of people of this country are image-worshipers, yet they are still Hindus. Those who call themselves agnostics are also Hindus. There is a school of thought propounded by an ancient Indian sage Charvaka, which refuses to believe in the existence of God. His followers are pure materialists but they are Hindus. ‘Hindu is not the name of form of worship, but a confederation or a parliament of numerous religious practices sharing in common the love of this country, its history and its cultural heritage.’ Hinduism has no definite creed. Kapila and Vyasa were opposed to one another and yet both of them are considered as rishis. The Hindu Vedantists belonging to the school of Ramanuja look down upon the Vedantist of the school of Sankara as blasphemers, the Vaishnava doctrines differ as wide as the poles from the Shaiva doctrines, even the gods have been made to fight one another in the Puranas. The test of being a Hindu, cannot, therefore, lie in religious opinions. (Sophia, July1898, p.101-102)There is a political conversion as the same religious conversion; I still remember when Atal Bhiri Ji (Our Last PM) came to Lok dal (JP)? It was a political conversion from Congress to BJP (Lok Dal). It was a ideological change what happened when a person change his religious ideology, as a society of human we need to accept that change, When I’m talking about change not in the term of through money or some substandard means.

    I mean Faith in God is Higher then and Conversion or Religion, spirituality is higher then Religion…

    Religion is not equivalent word for Dharma; No One can change their Dharma.

    Our dharma should be loving people and forgiving and helping not converting or reconverting human beings like cattle and sheep.

    I think it is shameful for people who change and recharge their own Dharma( long Definition not to be discuss here ) .

    Faith has nothing to do with Religion and religion have nothing to do with Dharma.

    Sanatan Dharma is Loving and Knowing God (satchitanada), knowing Saguna and Nirguna Brahma.

    Another point I like to say that who those are promoting word called Christianity , they do not know that Bible do not talk or mention word Christianity and same way Our Hindu Brothers do not know that Veda and Vedanta have no word called Hindu. So either you talk of changing religion that entire are -Name, Fame and Money and both (Hindu and Christians) side is trying to win the conversion game like cricket game.

    Today people are not foolish, poor and dalit is looking for help, so these religious political people are playing with their life and they themselves (dalit, Poor others) are became very opportunist, so today they are here tomorrow they will be there.

    Thank you

    Goutam Datta

    Calcutta, West bengal

  22. Whats a great news, Thanks to Shri Ajai Srivastava for covering it and Shri Tarsem Bharti ji for great deed..

  23. tarsem bharathi hats of to u…..i will tru to follow ur foot steps…

    great news this 150 will become 1500.150000,1500000

    lord krishna is there with us

  24. Hindu Bandhu: Shri.DS Pathania Ji,

    Please review your letter ,there are too many contradictions. In case, you still have no clarity of thought, please feel free to email me gurnath at gmail dot com. Lets respect this page, this is for Shri. Ajaiji Srivastava and Shri Tarsem Bharti ji . If, no one has problem , I will be more than happy to answer your Query.

    Caste based discrimination is the evil and not the caste, please dont get confused. JFI,before the advent of Islam in India, 2/3 of India was ruled by the today's so-called "Backward Castes" in India. Now, please contemplate on this, if Dr.Ambedkar and Friends,including Pt.Nehru did not want Caste based discrimination, why did they have to mention caste based reservations??? Reservations is supposed to be for the under privileged and disadvantaged. They said NO to caste yet Reservations and benefits were based on Caste?? Again, the Census stopped Caste based Census way back in 1931!!! Yet we have reservation based on CASTE! Shriman Hindu Bandhu.Please do write back for clarifications and suggestions. Let this be a healthy debate.

    Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Ji has given the following statement "Explaining his vision for a caste less India, Ravi Shankar said, "Historically, Dalits were on par with caste Hindus. We need to make the present generation aware of this truth. The only solution to the problem of social discrimination is to educate people and make them realise that caste by birth is not sanctioned by religion."

    "The current generation of castes is not exposed to the enormous contribution of the Dalits to Hindu religious literature. The conference will go a long way in clearing many misunderstandings between the communities," he said.

    Reiterating his call for an end to the practices that prevent Dalits from entering temples, he said, "Nobody has the right to bar people from entering the House of God."

    Gurunath

    gurunath@hinduyuva.com
    http://www.hinduyuva.com

  25. Dear Gurunathji,

    Well Casteism when introduced was not bad but it became worse in no time…fight for supremacy amongst castes and its association with inheritance. Son of a warrior is a warrior or son of a priest is a priest…how ridiculous.

    Hinduism was a corrupt religion about 2500 years ago when a prince decided to relinquish it. He was lord Buddha. Rest is history.

    Dalits, I have read and it is my experience, were not treated at par with other Hindus. It was advocated that molten lead should be poured into their ears if they are found listening to bhajans/hymns. Who could introduce such draconian measures..upper caste people like Rajputs or Brahmins.

    During my college days, my roommate in the hostel was an SC. I once asked him to explain the atrocities he or his ancestors faced at the hands of upper caste people. He told me that his grandparents (first quarter of 20th century) were required to tie small brooms behind their feet so that when they walk their footprints are wiped off from ground.!! While narrating this tale I could see tears in his eyes. This is not a canard.

    I have a read a similar story about 'at par treatment' of dalits in South India. Priests (Iyers or nampoothiris..it doesn't matter) used to sprinkle holy water on a passage if they came to know that a dalit has used it.

    Sant Tulsidas himself left no stone unturned in spoling Hinduism..

    Dhol Ganvaar Shudra Pashu Naari,

    Yeh sab taadan ke adhikari.

    (A drum, an illiterate, a low caste person, an animal and a woman…they deserve beating/reprimand). Now please don't tell me that this approach was right from historical perspective..a convenient shelter we take whenever we have to defend an anomaly of our society.

    Contrary to the ancient concept Yatra Naryatu Pujyate, Ramante tatra devah. (Gods reside in those places where women are worshipped). He seemed to have tossed it into wind. And all these against respect of all life forms as advocated in sanatan dharma.

    Rightly said he was "The Pathbhrashta" of Hindu samaj.

    Crookedness has been intrinsic to Hindu society since time immemorial. Why did Dronacharya demand right hand thumb of Eklavya (a bheel boy) as guru dakshina, because he wanted to eliminate a threat to Arjuna.

    If you take a critical look at this religion, priestly class has ensured that their multiple revenue streams are intact from life till death. I don't have to elaborate this further.

    Why did Dr. Ambedkar embrace Buddhism? Disenchantment with Hinduism ? His great contributions are known to all of us.

    Please spend a few moments scanning the profiles of people who attend Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's programmes, affluent people. (I am not against what he is doing).

    It is akin to 'nauso choohe khake billi haj ko chali'.

    But my question has remained unanswered…what was the need for other religions to emerge if Hinduism was a blemish free religion as we continue to tom tom today…tirelessly.

  26. Dear Shri. DS Pathania ,

    Firstly, the rhetoric that has been used for a long time. The need of the hour is new blood infused, who don't fall pray to the rhetoric you have given with some smattering of Sanskrit.(Most of us here including Youth have yet to understand, leave alone master Sanskrit). The Quotes given by you have been taken from the vast literature we have. As is said, History is like a Vaisya, one can do what he/she like to do with it. I would have loved to counter some of the above mentioned ,but I would like to stay focused.

    1) Gautam Buddha, moved away from his City-state for some other reasons, not the ones we have been fed with.

    2)A King's son has to be a King. A Priest's son has to be a Priest. A Businessman's son has to be in Business. The first two, has vanished to a large extent or on the verge of collapse. Tell me, in the last 60 years of "INDEPENDENT INDIA" for the most chunk who has ruled India. Nehru, Indira, Rajiv and now defaco Rahul. In fact, the name Gandhi has been hijacked from Mahatma Ji.

    3)Who has written Ramayan? Valmiki. who was he? A tribal. There are several examples.

    4)Gautam Buddha's clan once a Kingly clan is reduced to an under privileged status in Nepal(due to non-work), there is a book written by one from his clan. Thismay be a result of following Buddha Dharma. Please go thru the book.

    5)word Dalit is a word gifted by the Americans to us a few decades back. Not of Indian Origin. A Brahman can also be a Dalit if one takes the meaning.

    6)Dr.Ambedkar, for your information "DID NOT TAKE ONE BLOW OF LATHI " for the sake of Indian Independence!!! Why was Caste taken as a Dand-Maap? -Scale?? I wish you have read the PHD thesis of Dr.Ambedkar in 1916, that would throw a light on the Vision and conviction he had. Great man.His attempts were frustated by Pt.Nehru. He awarted a crisis by opting not to have seperate electroate for the SC and ST's unlike the Muslims, which resulted in Pakistan.

    7)As far as converting to Buddha Dharma, had he wanted he would have chosen Christianity or Islam, why did he not do that? Why Buddha Dharma? Cause, Buddha Dharma according to him is a rebel child of Hindu Dharma. JFI, he second wife, decades junior to him is a forward caste lady . The last name of Ambedkar is again given to him by his forward caste teacher!!

    8)Periyar, again married a forward caste lady decades younger to him and he was anti-Hindu. Today's DMK or AIDMK go to temples and even consult astrologers.

    9)You seem to have mastery over Sanskrit and Hindu literature, Ekalavya-Why was his Thumb asked as Guru-Dakshina??? Did you not read what has happened to Ekalavya after this episode?He reached dazzling heights.Why is that part not highlighted?

    10)Is being affluent a crime? or having Affluent sishyas a crime? Does one look at the glass in which Amrit is served or the Amrit?Hope you understand.

    11) Its sad that a learned Punditji like you is asking the question. Arshya Dharma is Blemish free. The people following it were/are not. For instance sandhya was prescribed to all Hindus. Do you perform Sandhya? Yoga was prescribed to all, do we follow? There are several we don't. Panchama Jati were kept out of Villages as a punishment for a crime committed and may not have been discrimination. They were taken back to the fold once the punishment period was over. As, stated by you in the first paragraph.Caste System is/was not bad but how one interprets it is. T

    12)The need of the hour is to understand Arshya Dharma and follow. You can also email me so that an healthy debate can be done.

  27. This platform is good for all. You don't have to get rattled with straight forward questions.

    Yes Valmiki wrote Ramayana..then why he is not worshipped by Upper caste people…we have put the cloak of casteism even on GODS!.

    My philosophy towards life is very simple.

    Man changa to kathauti main ganga. Pahan pooje Hari mile to main poojoon pahad..hence stay away from hypocrisy.

    God resides within us. You don't have to go to a temple or a mosque or a church or a math. These simply provide a context to a person for 'connecting' with HIM. If you are able to understand the first step you don't have to visit any of these.

    Budhdha dharma is a rebel child and what about others why did they emerge…simply because of anomalies which had creeped into the oldest religion.

    And finally I would say there is nothing permanent in this world..not even religion.

    We go through the cycles of Creation..Preservation and Destruction (CPD). If Prophet Mohammed is Dashavtar or Kalki Avatar then why do have problems with HIM because going by the philosophy of CPD the world has already reached the D stage..accept it.

  28. hi

    everybody i wish the same thing of reconversions into hinduism happen throughout the india, here by welcome the start of reconversion in h.p as the motto of reconversion and thus re convert those who are not happy in the christian community

  29. Adarinya Gautam Datta Ji,

    Hindu Yesu bhakata ? what is it that Jesus Christ (PBUH) (or Saint Paul) Preach that is not reflected in our Hindu(Arsha Dharma) Dharma? There is much more written that in the Holy Bible.

    You are contradicting yourself!! In the very first few pages of the Bible, it is very clearly written not to believe in Idol Worship, not to hear non-Christians(Pagans).Non-Christians are known as Pagans in Christianity and Kafurs in Islam( Islam means peace) , Peace for whom and by whom??? KILL all Pagans if they do not follow Christianity. Therefore, even if you want to believe in Christ(PBUH), it does not work. Either you are a Christian or a Pagan. Do you understand? Did you hear about Crusaders? ESTABLISH A CHRISTIAN KINGDOM (RAJ) AROUND THE WORLD BY SWORD.If you have ,your statement of "Hindu Yesu bhakata " is questionable. As things stand, where all we have Muslim and Christian presence or domination, the Country(Bharat) Let me use the Word INDIA for your understanding is in the danger of disintegrating.Did you hear of Spanish Conquistadors? Did you read the History of Portuguese Atrocities(Human Right Violations) in the present generation usage. Are you aware that in Middle Eastern Countries, one can not construct or pray in a Temple. Congregation of people of Hindu faith is Banned. Even carrying Pictures of Hindu Gods and Goddess is banned. In the Vatican ,only Churches are allowed. Hindu Temples are not allowed. Have you not heard of Temple demolitions in Russia and other CIS countries???

    As things stand, ALL PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY are a threat to the Unity and Integrity of India. Have you not heard of Kashmiri Hindus been hounded out of Kashmir? They are not a sizable vote bank so , Who cares???Are you not aware of the Rapid Christinization of State of Andhra Pradesh by Shri Dr.Y.S.RajaShekar Reddy.How the Tirupati Balaji funds are diverted for Church and other governmental activities? There is no auditing for Church Properties and Islamic Properties. All of Indians follow one law and the Muslims follow one law, are you aware?? Criminal law is conveniently not followed as it is harsh and they dont want it. They want the "Triple Talaq" and FOUR Wifes but no hanging, stoning to death or amputations!! Wowie!!! Make the cake and eat it too!! Are you not aware that the VC of Shri Padmavati University(Run By TTD) is a Christian who is Terrorizing girls to convert to Christianity or face action or her actions of replacing Shri Venkateshwara and Shri Padmavati Potraits with Jesus(PBUH) and Mother Mary? The list is endless…Do you know how the woman are forces into immoral activities (Forced sex with Pastors and others) in the name of Christ. Are you not aware, how an Organization had lead a trek, ("Sehshachal Trek-2007) , the irony of the Trek is , the Pradakshana is done in anti-clock wise direction around Tirumala. Did Jesus Christ(PBUH) ask You "Hindu Yesu bhakata " to do ANTI-HINDU ACTIVITIES???(read Anti-India). Contemplate first on your stand of "Hindu Yesu bhakata " concept.It may be a fad for you, but dangerous one. You may become an Anti-National with out your Knowledge. There are several things,incidents and Strategies here….

    "Let noble thoughts come to me from all directions"

    – Rig Veda

    [Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishwatah]

    Gurunath
    http://www.hinduyuva.com

  30. Shri.DS Pathania,

    Finally, thank Matarani Gayathri for getting enlighted as your statement says "So coming back to Hinduism is the key to happiness " .It was a pleasure to have you here.

    "Let noble thoughts come to me from all directions"

    – Rig Veda

    [Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishwatah]

    Gurunath
    http://www.hinduyuva.com

  31. Dear Gautam Ji and Anya bandhu:

    Please visit , http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/XAVIER2.htm

    Please Read and think for yourself, if you are doing the right thing? If you still want to follow, History would call such persons as "Desh Drohi" or Anti-India!! In the above Website is a letter By "SAINT FRANCIS XAVIER " to the " Society at Rome." " Then at last I baptize them in due form, and I give to each his name written on a ticket. After their baptism the new Christians go back to their houses and bring me their wives and families for baptism. When all are baptized I order all the temples of their false gods to be destroyed and all the idols to be broken in pieces. I can give you no idea of the joy I feel in seeing this done, witnessing the destruction of the idols by the very people who but lately adored them. In all the towns and villages I leave the Christian doctrine in writing in the language of the country, and I prescribe at the same time the manner in which it is to be taught in the morning and evening schools. When I have done all this in one place, I pass to another, and so on successively to the rest. In this way I go all round the country, bringing the natives into the fold of Jesus Christ, and the joy that I feel in this is far too great to be expressed in a letter, or even by word of mouth….

    You may judge from this alone, my very dear brothers, what great and fertile harvests this uncultivated field promises to produce. This part of the world is so ready, so teeming with shooting corn, as I may say, that I hope within this very year to make as many as a hundred thousand Christians…."

  32. I actually thank you for getting these “Taboo” topics on this page.
    Prostitution is the world’s “Oldest Profession”. Loads of people justify it. But unlike the Christians, I am sure the Nepali and Indian Hindu girls are not pushed into the flesh trade in the name of Hindu Dharma!!
    I and my Organization are against “Forced Prostitution” in any form. We stand by the victims of “Forced Prostitution”. It started in Kolkata? I doubt it, may be you are in that geographical area and you feel so. JFI, ¼ of the estimated 20 Lakh “Sex Workers” are from the State of Andhra Pradesh. (Source: Indian Express dated 09/03/2007). Girl child is sold off as cattle. (It’s a sorry state, now; there are an estimated 20 Lakh Cows in India. The “end consumers” and the “Middle men” are mostly Muslims and Christians). Forget ACP’s and all. It’s big business, which needs to be tackled at the socio-politico-economic levels.
    The Prostitution I referred to earlier is done in a very professional and organized way by the Christian missionaries in the name of Christ!!! They do have a song (call it whatever you want to), where the song gives a call to all to give, Time, Money, BODY and mind!! The girls, married and unmarried are forced to have sex in the name of Jesus and Virgin Mary!!!
    Male Child syndrome, its Just not the Hindu, just about any one in India are caught in this trap and usually, it’s the Mother-in-law, who wants a Male!! Is Mother-in-law is also not a woman?? Where does Hindu Dharma come in here??? Why is Hindu Dharma dragged here??
    If you get your hand on Dharmapal books, you will know that, In Bengal alone, before the advent of British, there were more than a Lakh schools run by the Hindus!!! It was systematically run down and closed. Partly may be because of people with your kind of Outlook!!! Further to above, today in India and world over, Sanskrit is learned at the Bachelors level and above by everyone interested .Its our National Language (India or Bharat).
    There are about 1 lakh Saraswati Mandir’s (Schools) in India, especially in rural areas. These are not supported by the government unlike most Missionary schools, in the name of Minorities!!!!
    “We don’t want to help our own people” .Who says so? If you are not helping and would want to help, I invite you to join us in helping the under privileged and the needy. Who gave out the maximum help risking their life’s at the time of Tsunami? It was we Hindu based Organizations. The others did help “In front of Cameras”. Praised Jesus and tried to convert people even in conditions like Tsunami. It’s aired on Television day in and day out!!!! The Hindu based organizations don’t. JFI, In Andaman and Nicobar Islands, people got fed up with the Christian Organizations for their conversion activities at the time of Tsunami and actually got after the missionaries till they were out of the Island!!!
    “Hindu run schools are blood suckers”!! Could you be more specific? And which school does your Girl goes?? (I don’t want to know, as I respect your privacy, it is you who got it personal) .Infact, it’s the other way round; the cheapest schools in terms of money in India are the Hindu Schools!!The Christian Schools are “very good” Blah! Blah! It’s true in some cases and mostly Christian propaganda. What about Swami Narayan Gurukul?? Are they not good??
    Take for instance, in most Hindi movies, it’s the Pandit/Swami/Temple who are the Villain and, it’s the Church or the father who is morally upright etc.This is what the Christians were/are able to portray. The Christians did not even have the guts to watch, “Da Vinci Code”, it was delayed, why??? The Muslims have a problem, even if Pr.Mohammad’s cartoon is out! Where is freedom of expression or freedom of press.M.F.Hussein’s Portrayal of Maa Saraswati in nude and his hatred for Hindu is to be pardoned under “Freedom of Expression”. Why must INDIA blood be wasted when somewhere, someone has done a cartoon?? “Jesus Lost Tomb” was not allowed to be telecast in India??? Can you give me a plausible explanation or reason???
    Come out with the “NAME OF THE SCHOOL”, don’t talk in the air, which school in Chennai are you talking of??Is it for real or a figment of your imagination? “Tens of students with vertical or horizontal forehead marks”. Are you trying to insult, Vishnavites and Shivites?? I humbly request you to take back your words; you are now insulting Hindu Dharma, culture and heritage.
    “Yes in the past, atrocities have happened with Hindus..Reasons are known to us. Temples were destroyed and mosques built….but are you advocating settling scores for past actions ??
    Past generations could not do justice to Hindu Dharma .Even now some have been insulting Hindu Dharma. Pointing out decay is welcome. Suggestions are welcome. It is up to us YUVA(YOUTH) of India to set the records straight. Now the battle is not with Knifes and Guns. Its electronic battle. Yuva of India, will set the records straight. India is for Hindus’. India is a Hindu Nation and a Hindu State. As said before, If other than Hindus’ if anyone wants to be in India, they are welcome to stay here as guests. They are welcome to stay here as the Jews and Parsis did. Pseudo Hindus’ have no place in India. Nutty, cranky characters have no place in here. They are welcome to go to the deserts of Vast and homely Arabia or may be Europe.
    Hungry stomach is the gift of Islam and Christianity. Read your history. A slave is a concept of the Muslims and Christians.
    I request everyone to stop watching Television Channels and News Paper publications, which are Anti-Hindu(Read Anti-India) . Please use your discretion. For example, it was shown on television sometime back , where mother and father were hitting ,slapping, kicking a bride .The occasion was a mass marriage ceremony conducted by TTD. Like all , I was very angry and sad that a girl was terrorized to marry . It was reported on the national media that the Parents were forcing the Bride to marry forcibly!!In the local Telugu media, the girl confessed that, she did want to marry the boy(He is also her childhood sweetheart) but not with 500 others!!!She wanted her marriage to a special occasion for her and she wanted it solo!!! WHY was this not carried as a clarification on the National Channels!! It was to deride the TTD marriage ceremony Program. By the way, the Chairman of TTD, Shri Karunakar Reddy, is allergy to be a Christian. He has not refuted the charge!!!
    Lets all strive for a better Hindu society and destroy the evils in the society.

    Warm Regards,
    gurunath
    http://www.hinduyuva.com

  33. Once again 'discernment' was not applied to my statement.

    I have never intended to say that coming back to Hinduism is a key to happiness!. Our society has been rotting since ages.

    It should be known that what is being preached in the name of Christianity is not what Jesus stood for. It is Paulinism which is being followed everywhere…obviously with its own set of distortions.

    Same is the case with Islam…this particular religion has been hijacked by bigots and hence a negative perception. Prophet Mohammed himself had advocated tolerance towards Dhimmies..non-believers in Allah…but it was never followed else it is a simple religion…one book and one prophet..that's it.

    Nitpicking Budhdhism, Christianity and Islam contradicts:

    Aa no bhadra kratwo yantu vishwatah…..Let noble thoughts come to us from all directions….

    means from anybody, anywhere..irrespective of his/her faith and/or place.

  34. Regarding your comments about prostitution:

    About 30,000-40,000 teenaged girls are pushed into prostitution by Hindu pimps and chachis or mausis what ever you call them. It all starts from Calcutta and this consumable ends up in getting distributed in the whorehouses in various cities of India. Most of these are Hindu or Nepali Hindu girls. What is your take on it ? Yatra naryatu pujayate ramante tatra devah.

    An ACP of Mumbai..who was interviewed by CNN (Programme..land of missing children)..defended prostitution i.e. a male needs outlets for discharging his energy!!! Afterall variety is a spice of life!!!!

    Preference for a male child……Too big a topic to deliberate. I am not going to spend my energy on it.

    You visit any remote corner of this country..you will find a school run by missionaries for the local populace…how many schools sanatan dharmis have opened in remote far flung areas of India? We don't want to help our people but if others are 'helping' then we have a difficulty. Isn't it hypocrisy ?

    My daughter studies in a school run by missionaries..absolute discipline and no hanky panky business like seen in other schools run by Hindus where they extort money from parents. For Christian students they conduct separate classes pertaining to Bible.

    There is one 'famous school' in Chennai…they teach Sanskrit, Vedas and what not…but look at the fee structure…its loot…money will be collected and proper receipts will not be given.

    Some of the unwritten rules..preference for Brahmins…you can see tens of students with vertical or horizontal forehead marks. Another unwritten rule…You should be rich..I could have stuffed those mouths with a wad of notes but why the heck. Person at reception would be like a bloody thirsty hound. Who wants to deal with such nutty characters.

    I didn't face any of such things when I sought admission for my daughter in a school run by missionaries. For constructing a building..they asked one time extra contribution..a beautiful building and auditoriums were constructed. Proper stamped receipts explaining the rationale were given.

    Yes in the past, atrocities have happened with Hindus..Reasons are known to us. Temples were destroyed and mosques built….but are you advocating settling scores for past actions ??

    It is true that other religions advocate proselytising and are doing it in a highly organised way but since there is too much of rot in Hinduism…then why complain if poor people embrace other faiths because for them every penny is a pound!!! A hungary stomach has no religion!!

    A sanatan dharmi will not mind offering lakhs of rupeed in TTD Hundi but ask him to feed a few hungry people or sponsor a child's education he will probably not do it.

  35. Well I stick to my observation that all religions are in hell hole and Hinduism is no exception.

    Christianity: What is being taught in the name of Christianity is Paulinism not what Jesus stood for. Please read ‘Jesus lived in India’ by Holger Kirsten. Many of my Christian friends believe in it.

    Those who opposed Paulinism were harmed…Amish settlers in USA is one such community which was hunted out of Europe during medieval times for opposing Paulinism.

    So far as above movies are concerned, people in western world watch these. In India we add a political hue to everything when somebody wants to explore truth or tries to shatter ancient beliefs. Remember the movie ‘water’.

    Islam: I do a religious debate with many of my muslim friends, in India as well as abroad. Almost all of them say that if there is a religion which has been ruthlessly hijacked, it is Islam and today its perception is completely negative. Scriptures are being followed in accordance to the whims & fancies of mullahs and moderates are too weak to raise their voice.

    I also know a Hindu woman who has married a muslim and is living happily. Theirs is a simple commonsense approach to life. Religion hardly matters for husband and wife.

    Portraying women/goddesses
    MF Hussain did render an apology after that fiasco of painting a goddess nude.

    I am sure you have seen teleserial Mahabharat…how were actresses portrayed…in stylish bras. Upper half of body was scantily dressed..you don’t call that obscene! Mandakini in minis in eighties…that’s not obscene ? Even in Hindu scriptures there are incidents of yogis having roving eye and crossing limits. Remember the story of Ahalya ? Morality wither?

    We still have the practice of Devadasis. A girl is ‘married’ to God but continues to be ‘marred’ by priests till she remains attractive.

    So if somebody else crosses a limit, then don’t accept it but we ourselves will have no limits imposed on us.

    Education: I stick to my point because that’s based on my experience and I am not going to disclose the name of the school.

    Caste based affiliations:
    As pointed out earlier, these can be seen in community as well as in the work place. Hindu society has been sent into a hellhole mainly because of upper caste people. Mistreatment of other fellow Hindu communities has remained a hallmark of Rajputs (I am one) and Brahmins since time immemorial. I won’t deliberate that further.

    Latter community never believed in sharing knowledge across the society. It ensured that knowledge remained within close knit clans.

    Because of this selfish ulterior motive, knowledge was not documented because then it becomes easier for others to know it.

    (Although we claim that we had a ten engined pushpak viman but did not bother to invent a printing press and data storage devices.)

    So carefully planned crafty strategy was adopted…learn by cramming..knowledge remains in the mind so nobody can steal it/copy it and tom tom that we Indians are very good in memorising..yes that became our quality with the passage of time.

    But what was conveniently forgotten by these ignoramuses that knowledge residing in mind dies the day a person dies and has to be reinvented if it is not transmitted to the next person holistically. Needless to mention that such transmittals whenever they happened remained within the community.

    It is a fact that in a society where knowledge is not shared with everybody goes to dogs very soon.

    Within in any organisation you will find that accounts/finance departments are always having people belong to Brahmin community or Marwaris…why ? Do others don’t know how to do bean counting ?

    What is the reason for a person to indulge in an ostentatious display of his caste?

    If a language has to be seen throught the lens of religion then why to learn English because it is western language. Translate every bit and piece of iformation into Hindi or Sanskrit and watch the fun poor students will have to face because of verbatim et literatim kind of translation…like ‘chal-kundli-dharamapi’ for ‘moving coil galvanometer’!!

    TTD: Type of darshan and duration is dependent upon how much you shell out!. Strange.
    Why don’t we install GOD on the rooftop so that everybody can see it but then people won’t pay..you know it is always a question of give and take!. Installing deities outside the temple ? Near ITO in New Delhi…why is Lord Hanuman standing outside the temple if it is not an acceptable practice?.

    If TTD funds are being diverted for funding conversion projects..who is to blame…its management comprising mainly of priests…why do they act as spineless cowards?

    I had been to Brindavan. I was newly married so got the chance to sit in the front row. And this Bengali priest when he realised that I am more interested in putting money in the Hundi than in his plate, he starting giving all sorts of indirect threatening explanations..yeh ho jaayega voh ho jaayega etc. Sorry buddy I don’t fall victim to your intended interpretation of scriptures, that was my response to him…yes he was fuming but who cares!

    In the same place one can see hundreds of widows living in pathetic conditions and many of them can be seen begging in streets. You probably also know that there are countless Hindus who bring their uneducated god fearing parents and dump them in Kumbh ka mela or other such gatherings for ‘washing sins’ and never to take them back. What a way of getting rid of them.!!

    But you haven’t still answered my question..if Hinduism was ‘The religion’…what was the need for other religions to emerge?.

    I will tell you based on my limited knowledge..this came to be known as a hotch potch of beliefs millennia ago and selfish interpretations by self styled custodians of faith. It.could not be defined in simple clear cut language…that created a ground for rebels to come out of it and create guidelines…people don’t follow those it’s a different issue.

    I like unclothing people for their bigoted beliefs. I accept criticism because that gives me the right to criticize others.

    Settling scores for past atrocities…I don’t fancy that idea.

  36. While Dr. S. Radhakrishnan (1st Vice President and later the

    President of India) was living in Madras after his retirement.

    Some of the students from American Christian College from

    Madhura (Tamilnadu) paid a visit to Dr. Radhakrishnan. It was

    in December and just before the party began to leave, he told them

    that since this is Christmas time, let us sing some Christmas carols. At last, he began to sing the song " when I survey the

    wonderous cross, at that point Dr. Radhakrishnan started

    shedding tears. The last song sung by Mahatma Gandhi was

    the same song.

    Religions has caused more problem in history than anything.

    I was born in a Christian family, grew up with Hindu friends,

    in the college days, got more friends from the Muslim religion.

    We never fought for religion but I stood firm to tell them to

    learn of Jeus Christ and requested them, if you find something

    unique in His personality, please follow Him. Jesus never

    forced anybody to follow Him. It is up to the person to make

    a decision to follow Him. I will not die for Christianity, but I will

    not fear death in my personal relationship with JESUS CHRIST.

    Let us not offend each other in the name of religion, but debate

    the issue in mutual respect and love. Yesterday is a history,

    tomorrow is a mystery, and today is the reality. If we try to

    change the past and settle scores because of the past evils

    done by somebody in the name of religion, it will simply invite

    more bloodshed and hatred.

    f

  37. Shriman DS Pathania Ji,

    Please read thru what you have typed with Pragmatism. In almost every comment you typed, there are contradictions, confusion. No CLARITY OF THOUGHT and all the negative things. Is there anything positive in whatever you have written? Please review at your end .What makes you think the way you think? ….Negatively. I don’t mean to offend you. Its for all who think the way you think.

    Most of the comments and thoughts look like are from your personal experiences and hearsay. “Education: I stick to my point because that’s based on my experience and I am not going to disclose the name of the school.” Now, stop this, it looks so childish, come up with well though, well done comments. I would really appreciate that. Come up with quality comments.

    PLEASE DON NOT COMPARE MAA SARASWATI with Mandakini or teleserials.

    "Saint Paul's Gospel" is in and is considered Christianity by majority of the people living in the small wonder called EARTH. You take it or leave it. We are all fighting this. Call this as Paulism or Christianity. Read the Bible. It spits venom on anyone and everyone but a Christian. PERIOD.

    I don’t not know how watching “Da Vinci code" or "the Lost Tomb of Jesus" is colored politically. Please refer back to the archives; the "Drama" was by the Christians and with Violence!!

    For Islam, Pf.Mohammad did fight in all possible ways. Infact, it’s a big farce to call "Islam" –religion of Peace. It’s a religion of piece and piece. When Pf.Mohammad died, 11 swords and a couple of pairs of dresses were recovered from him. It’s a religion of blood, right from "Katna" to grave!!!!

    Why don’t you invite "Your Friend" Shri M.F.Hussein to paint Pf.Mohammad with his bride (She was his Daughter-in-law a few moments before she was his bride, the convienent "Talaq, Talaq, Talaq” may have been introduced then!!!)Or "Jesus in between the legs of a woman" or so that he does not offend anyone, Shri .M.F.Hussein's wife, daughter or daughter-in-law in their birthday suits – NATURAL!! Or a self Portrait of himself with his favorite person in birthday suit .It would be so real.

    Devadasi system!!! I am not part of it. Your "we" is not us. It could be you. Anyways, are you suggesting we go the Australian way of listing "Pleasure Houses" on the stock markets!! Wowie…that would be so much money and one might buy the little extras on the overseas trip!!!

    Why are you so obsessed with Castes????? Was there a need to tell us all what Caste you belong to??? Did anyone request you??? Who cares??? Do You??? I don’t nor I think anyone here. By the way, your Friendly religion Islam has Castes too!!!

    Please try and be in the present. Today’s world. Be Pragmatic, rather than being proud of people who tried to master memory, what’s the point in asking, why didn’t they have storage and computers or documenting?? Read your history, try understanding.

    Please try and understand what is been said and commented up on, let your comment be informative, suggestive, educative and positive.

    AND WHY ARE YOU SUCH A PESSIMIST. IF YOU DONT LIKE INDIA AND INDIAN HERITAGE AND CULTURE, I AM SURE YOUR FRIENDS IN INDIA AND ABROAD WILL FIND A SUITABLE PLACE FOR YOU SOMEWHERE, WHERE THE WORD HINDU DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!

    Or may be, all are equal with the same shirt size!!! Are you looking for a world where, in order not to discriminate, rose flower, apple and Oranges will smell ,taste and look the same???

    Nothing personal, I request you once again. lets use this space provided for good,educative,positive, debates and information.

    Warm Regards,

    Gurunath
    http://www.hinduyuva.com
    "Let Noble Thoughts come to me from all directions" – Rig Veda.

  38. Hello Gurunath ji,

    Kindly expalne your Idea of Dharma ? Are You human First or Hindu First?

    Sumit

  39. Hello,

    I do not have always access to Internet as you have and I am working so I do not have that much time like you. We are not like you who those are running some great organization whose motto is speeding hatred so I am sorry to tell you that you might have great love for India but for wrong thing.

    You did not read my comment. I have not asked you to comment on my comment.

    We know our right and our constitution so please do not try to convert others who do not share your Idea of issum.

    You do not decide who is Hindu? And who is not! Rig Veda does not tell you about Hinduism, you know very well.

    Please answer me with is 3 Question and I‘ll tells you mine:-

    1. Please tell me what do you mean by word Hindu? And Hinduism?

    2. Please describe Dharma and what you think dharma is?

    3. Please explain Dharma and Religion.

    That was my comments that should not be taken as a topic of debate which you are doing so furiously mixed with anger and bitterness. “The thing you hate the most that thing you become”, so hate is a terrible thing to have. I hope you remember the story of Mahabharata and not forget the real story of Hiranyakashipu and His Son Prahlad.

    We just celebrated wonderful Holi and my mind goes back into the story and I find People like you reflect the picture of Proud King Hiranyakashipu and who those follow Bhagaban Yesu, (Not Christianity or convertated to so call Christian) are like Prahlad.

    One day modern Hiranyakashipu and their sister (Holika) will burn into the Fire of bitterness and and anger.

    I understand your felling of getting so angry because of bad thing which Christianity has brought into the world but you should not Mix Christianity and Christ. I am also same felling with you and I fell empathy on that Issue.

    One is religion but other one is relationship and it is plan relationship with Bhagavan, one is culture another is faith.

    You are mixing up faith and culture. Bhagavan can incarnate in any culture. He dose not need your permission to incarnate. So I am a Hindu and I have faith in Yesu Bhagavan.

    I have not found any place of teaching Of Yesu that non Christian, crusade, idol worship, and atleast in the 4 gospel Yesu did not mention this words.

    Yes Christianity dose mention all this words, but I am talking about Yesu not Christianity again.

    I think you should know about Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Tagor, and Many from our Bengal who talked very much agnst Idol worship.

    The Hindu Vedanta’s of the school of Ramanuja look down upon the Vedantists of the school of Sankara as blasphemers, the Vaishnava doctrines differ as wide as the poles from the Shaiva doctrines, even the gods have been made to fight one another in the purans. The Test of being a Hindu, Cannot, therefore, lie in religious opinions.

    Look through the eyes of Our Sikh brothers, Radah Swami Satsang, Nirankar movement, and many movements are not follower of Idol worship. When some one started to follow this movements, you do not raise any voice and I am not asking you to do that but logically you must understand if you have heart of man of God. With Due respect, I would ask you to have some good study on (serious study) on Religion of Rig-Veda and learn that art of multiples theologies and each different then others so we need to accept the novel one, we can not generalize everything just for few odd

    Swami Vevakanda once told that weak conscience needs Idol to meditate but for the Strong one see beyond, Ramakrishna Pramahansha Saw Yesu In The dream and Realize the Shakti,

    I better Listen to them, listen, who close to god and have relationship rather then you who merely propagating the Political manifesto or agenda, It also gives lot of Dollar from abroad, Our NRI brother love to listen all the news of Conversion and Reconversion.

    Kingdom of God is in you, you do not have go here and there. Let the Novel thought come then you are agnst that novel thought Of Yesu but you like to Quote Rig Veda, just for Knowledge, no implement of that Novel thought.

    Novel thought can come from anywhere, you do not decide on that.

    When you are in water, you do not tell water to come to you from particular area, it will come from everywhere. Human are seeking God and Love of God, they want from anywhere in spite of any cast, creed, Religion or color.

    As far as Anti-national aspect come:- let me tell you that who those speak agnst our country’s constitution and do not have high honor or do not keep that in their daily practice are anti National, anti Social and anti Human and anti God.

    “Let noble thoughts come to me from all directions”

    – Rig Veda

    [Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishwatah]

    Thank you

    Goutam Datta

    Kolkata, West Bengal

  40. THE COVERAGE GIVEN WAS GOOD, BUT NO ONE GOING IN DEEP WHAT IS HAPPENING. ALL THESE HAPPENING BECAUSE OF JELOUS OF HINDU ORTHODOX PEOPLE. I WAS BORN IN A HINDU FAMILY. IN 1988 I BECAME A CHRISTIAN HERE IN DUBAI. THAT WAS NOT UNDER ANY PRESSURE. IN OUR HINDU RELIGION ONLY HIGHER CLASS PEOPLE ARE HONOURED.OTHERS ARE JUST FOR MAKE USE. IN CHRISTIANITY NO DESCRIMINATION I FELT. NOW I AM KNOWN AS JOSEPH. MY WIFE(VANAJA) NOW KNOWN AS MARIA. WE ARE HAPPILY LIVING HERE

  41. The lies coming from deadly throats. We are becoming a cruel society as we are admiring deadly persons like Narendra Modi. Many of our hindu brothers considering him as a hero. Ofcourse he is a hero of the hell. With his help around 3000 human beings assassinated; but if some one kill one cow he may act fast and may make a Dharna.

    All my friends -you are belongs to any relegion no problem keep humanity in his mind and your acts. We can see more humanity in the christian communiy and their religion never teach cruelty . I am not a christian , but I like christianity more than any other religion I know

  42. Dear Mr. Gurunath,

    There is no need for you to get jittery. Your reactions are a clear indication that you are not able to apply discernment for any of the above posts.

    Humanity has suffered enough in the name of religion, so don’t advocate ideas about rewriting history. There will be no takers of such attitudes. It is true that with the advent of Islam there was violence, so was with missionary activity. They continue to proselytize even today..but who provides them easy bait for conversion, ‘We’ by not treating low caste people with respect and not trying to improve their lot.

    It is true Hinduism was not associated with violence but for more than a millennium we sidelined a huge chunk of low caste Hindu population….this huge segment continues to suffer emotionally and physically even today. Please read the link I have posted. It is another form of violence, I hope it will open your closed eyes.

    What I find that you are not accepting unvarnished truth that upper caste people were responsible for sending Hindu society into a hell hole. If you belong to that category by virtue of your inheritance, then you must also share that burden. I mentioned my caste because I have no hesitation in accepting that upper caste people mistreated low caste people. I have seen it myself. We did not have slavery but we mistreated and alienated this segment. To me there seems to be no difference between two different sets of treatment.

    You are putting a string of question marks after every statement of yours, that indicates your frustration in facing inconvenient truth.

    Let us talk straight…what is your plan for 15% Muslims, 2% Christians and less than 1% Buddhists and Sikhs of India. Do you want everybody to embrace Hinduism? If not then what ? Behave like Narendra Modi and set this whole nation aflame ?

    Graham Staines and his family dedicated their entire life in treating lepers in a god forbidden place of Orissa but he alongwith his sons wer burnt alive for that acto of good lifemanship. Yes missionary activity was taking place in that part of the world but it also involved personal sacrifices. Do you endorse what Dara Singh did?

    Gujarat riots were reportedly a sequel to burning of a train at Godhra. But what are the findings….we continued to read conflicting reports. Truth never came out either because of intentions to hide it or because of lack of expertise in investigating it or a combination of both.

    Please explain what is your definition of ‘coexistence of other faiths’. Do you want people from other faiths stand in front of you in submission with folded hands and tails tucked between their legs?

    If others are proselytizing then who stops you from doing that…shell out money and goodies to sell religion like Vatican is doing. Given the social inequality and hyprocrisy we have, we cannot match that scale of Vatican.

    But don’t blow your trumpet that lower caste converts after embracing Hinduism will automatically become at par with upper caste people, marriages between two different castes will take place, people will share meals et al. That needs an attitudinal correction..long way to go. Reconversion will help in increasing numbers but not in eliminating social inequality.

    For me religion is a personal matter…I won’t interfere in others’ matters and won’t allow others to interfere in mine. That’s my definition of co-existence.

  43. Smart Alec said…a piece of bread, a glass of wine and thou (my beloved)…there is no place for religion 🙂

  44. Mr. Gurunath Ji,

    Thank you for your response, I hope you are reading all the comments that are on the page, I hope you got my one, please now response to my Questions? Waiting to hear from you.

    Thank you

    Goutam data

    Kolkata, West Bengal

  45. Namaskar,Hindu Bandhu:

    Sumit Jii, Dharma teaches one to be human. Unfortunately for us today, I have to use the word Hindu Dharma, so as not to confuse. A few decades back Dharma meant Hyndava Dharma or Arshya Dharma or Hindu Dharma. Hindu Dharma instils Human Values into a person. Makes a Good human out of an Animal.

    From the posts that have been posted here, most seem to follow Dharma. One may have difference of opnion here on this page but no hatred. If you see the Post of Shri Gautam Datta Ji, its so well done, Except for the fact that he has gone a little personal on me. (I let go of it, may be he is frustated at work or what ever). He agrees with me so much that he picked up my signature from Rig Veda!! I take no offence, it belongs to everyone. I can feel the emotion and he did agree that he empathises with me.

    Shri Deshpande(Joseph) did agree that the "coverage was good" and he used the words "Our Hindu Religion", which shows that his Hindu roots have not dried up in his heart. Looks like he is angry with certain things ,like my now good friend Shri Phatania Ji.

    " Do we burn down a home because there is a Rat or a Snake in the house! !" WE clear the home of Rats and Snakes.

    I am happy that all have got a good oppurtunity to share and exchange views. It's so healthy. Actually, All of us have to thank Shri Ajai Ji and <a href="http://www.HimVani.com” target=”_blank”>www.HimVani.com.

    Shri Vidhu Ji , your message was excellent.

    My Dear Hindu Bandhu, all your comments are so good and thought provoking but along with your comments can we also have some solutions to the problems.

    All this is for a life of Dignity, Pride, Honor, Peace and Prosperity.

    Jai Hind!

    gurunath

  46. Lolzzz Gautam da and Party. Ganging up against me !!! See for yourself? Being articulate is branded as "not able to Disern"!!! But, I welcome every and all comments. Shri Pathania using words like "Jittery"… and you are using…. "Mr. Gurunath Ji,

    Thank you for your response, I hope you are reading all the comments that are on the page, I hope you got my one, please now response to my Questions? Waiting to hear from you.

    Thank you Goutam data Kolkata, West Bengal "

    Take it postive, If you are responding to me, I suppose I can expect some knowledge of What you arer talking of….

    Alrite, I request you to post all you have to post. If its beyond the scope of the this page, I will be more than happy to host a interactive website to give out answers. You are most welcome. I hope you and party will not make this personal.

    Jai! Hind!

    Gurunath

    http://www.hinduyuva.com

  47. Gautam data,

    I am not able to "disern" your message…"hello i can not see"….could you please eloborate. As accused by Shri DS Pathania, I am not able to "disern" this line of yours.

  48. I've been following this page quite dilligently. Excellent debate going on. My concern is why is not any dalit being a part of this conversation. Well I'm a dalit and I think nobody seems to understand the psyche of a dalit. I come from Himchal itself. For the most of my childhood i've stayed outside my village and my parents never let me know that there existed any caste discrimination and i was protected. I don't know whether to blame them for that as they personally were attuned to this discrimination. As I gre up and more I started visiting my home there wre a lot of restrictions. Parents never allowed me to go near the temples. Initially i thought it as protective nature but later I realised was to not let me get the taste of discrimination. Then when one day I ventured alone into the temple complex, i fortunately was not beaten up by the thekedars of the temple. I tried logic but logic was above them. Their refrain was: You are new here. You stay outside so you don't know tha laws and norms here. Go and ask your parents whether you should come to this temple or not. Also give some "Dand" to the devta else your family will be cursed. Something might happen to them. I cam back infurauted.

    The next day I came back to shimla. And soon i learnt that my entry into the temple complex and not into the temple had spread like fire. There was a meeting called of villages that beleived in the devta. A shuddhi havan was done to purify the temple.

    It's very easy to debate here, and diffiicult to life alife of a dalit. But I don't believe that conversion is an answer to that. You have to fight the system by living in it. And again any time I'll get an opportunity to break this imposed law I will do that. I don't understand why can't my shudhi be done in the way the temple's shudhi was done.

    Outside my village I put up a pretension of a Rajput and when I mingle with other rajputs and Brahmins I realise how much they hate the SCs. The way they talk in private. I've friends of my caste and are known to others as well (their caste). And when these leave, these rajputs/Brahmins have always a comment to pass on, not realising that I too belong to that caste only. Though I've confronted them many a times, they have an answer : Tere ko dard kyun ho raha hai?

    Keep up the debate but take some action on the ground as well. By the way, the menial work attributed to my caste of carrying the dead bodies of animals etc. was quit by my grand parents. So neither my parents' generation nor my generation did that work. Still the stigma of a dalit is being carried by me as an albatross.

  49. Amrit Kumar,

    "You have to fight the system by living in it. " I agree 100% with you. Even Dalits who convert to Christianity face caste discrimination. Its important to remember that no religion is perfect, no society in the world has a history unblemished.

    "Keep up the debate but take some action on the ground as well. " Again, you are 100% correct. Sometimes Indians spend too much time arguing about problems instead of trying to solve it.

    I support the Dalits 100%, because I believe in Human Rights and that everybody is equal. We should all ask ourselves what actions could we take to destroy this evil caste system. Mr. Kumar, I wish you good luck with your struggles.

  50. Dear Amrit,

    You have hit the nail on the head. Your post should serve as an eye opener to these self styled custodians of faith. I have been raising this point repeatedly in my posts but I find it was not sinking into the petrified minds of those who don't get tired of clamouring the virtues of Hinduism.

    In my opinion the community which has been marginalised for so many centuries should ignore seeking benefits of reservation because it has become more of a vote bank tool and has caused more harm to these people than really benefitting them.

    Instead work hard, study hard and prove your worth and be a role model to others like Dr. Ambedkar, Dr. KL Narayan et al. It will be an uphill task given the racist and castiest mindset upper caste people continue to have. But inculcate a never- say-die-spirit in yourself.

    You know when you make genuine attempts to improve your lot and sore high, people will be careful about making castiest remarks. They can keep sulking inside that's a different issue.

    I am in complete agreement with whatever you have stated because I have seen such stupid things happening.

    On one hand we say 'saa vidya yaa vimuktaye' on the other hand we have no respect for people and are unable to get rid of millenia old evil practices.

    There is another aspects which we have been conveniently forgetting. Manual labour is seen as stigma in our society..North to South and East to West. Our respect for a person is also dependent upon how neat and clean he/she physically is while mind might be full of muck.

    In my village there were two baolis for drinking water. One day a boy from the neighbouring harijan basti took water from it and look at the hue and cry that was raised by rajputs. They eventually stopped taking water from it. Source of water itself was banished. That's hypocrisy.

    Goodluck to you in your endeavours.

  51. Dear DS Pathania,

    "If others are proselytizing then who stops you from doing that…shell out money and goodies to sell religion like Vatican is doing. Given the social inequality and hyprocrisy we have, we cannot match that scale of Vatican.

    But don’t blow your trumpet that lower caste converts after embracing Hinduism will automatically become at par with upper caste people, marriages between two different castes will take place, people will share meals et al. That needs an attitudinal correction..long way to go. Reconversion will help in increasing numbers but not in eliminating social inequality.

    For me religion is a personal matter…I won’t interfere in others’ matters and won’t allow others to interfere in mine. That’s my definition of co-existence. "

    If religion is personal then what is conversion? Not interfering into one's faith?

    Also, did co-existence ever fare well with proselytising?

    You say things that contradict each other.

  52. Gurunath Ji,

    I am sorry If i have hurt you any way, We use "Ji " in our place to any one , east India and North India if you tell Goutam Ji, I 'll be very happy, not taking it negatively, Just a Personal Question? If you do not mind, are you from South of India. I am accepted here.

    1." I do Not see" should take out of context, As I am not that good with computer or webpage so try to see your’s or other's response, I was asking that I do not see your comment, Just Now I can see on the screen your comments, so please do not take other way, It is purely a mistake concerning how to submit comments and see on the screen,

    So Please I hope you understand. It is a technical Mistake; see how email and female is so dangerous because we can make any meaning out of nothing. Webpage, are very cold medium, we just see other writing not the person so make all kind of Guess.

    2. I am not taking it personal any more as you are open I am also. I have just saw you comments and felt that you are very anger person , because I am guessing through your writing and the language, you might be very great person and loving nature.

    3. I do not have any gang I believe one thing that “if no one goes with you then you go alone (taking From Tagor Kabita in Bengali). One thing the great people could not understand that why there was no name in the blood( like Hindu Blood, Christian Blood, Muslim blood rather it is A+,B+ O+) I think you and your gang should try to invent or do some research on recreation theory where every person should be given name with taboo. Name Goutam Datta, blood group Hindu +, Gurunath, blood group Hindu++

    Joseph, Blood group –Christian+ don’t you think that will solve most of the problem,

    As My friend In TCS told me near future everyone will have some type of chips that will give all the information.

    Please do not take that I am anger or Upset it is the way I communicate when some one so serious like you for some novel cause.

    In your comment you are complaining to Mr. Summit ghosh about me, taking the signature, it is for all, you do not have monopoly on that great word. It is for everybody.

    4. I am not here to show my knowledge and win the arguments, as Bengali and Tamil’s is master on this.

    5. We are here to solve certain problem which our country is facing, namely ‘conversion’.

    6. If you have some constructive solution to that problem, please give rather then challenging people, provoking people, telling who suppose to stay in India or whose should not.

    7. I kind of guess where you come from by looking at your webpage (it is not opening the entire page). I know you are committed to your idea of Hindu and Hinduism. I do not mind.

    8. I would love to have your Idea of Hinduism and maybe give us a teaching on Hinduism. Definition, where it came from? What happen to religion of Rig Veda?

    9. After I heard from You, I’ll tell you what The RSS top leader talks about Hindu and Hinduism.

    10. Let us help each to have more of Novel thought as Our Scripture (Rig Veda) called us do.

    11. Please send me your email so we can write to each other.

    Thank you

    Goutam Datta

    Kolkata, west Bengal.

  53. .Mr.DS Pathania ji,

    " I do Not see" should take out of context, As I am not that good with computer or webpage so try to see your’s or other's response, I was asking that I do not see your comment, Just Now I can see on the screen your comments, so please do not take other way, It is purely a mistake concerning how to submit comments and see on the screen,

    So Please I hope you understand. It is a technical Mistake; see how email and female is so dangerous because we can make any meaning out of nothing. Webpage, are very cold medium, we just see other writing not the person so make all kind of Guess.

    Thank you

    Goutam datta

    Kolkata

  54. You may not see your comments immediately, as they are held for moderation. We've enabled moderation so that spam does not filter into these pages. We also have an 'Akismet Spam' plugin enabled which catches spam and keeps it for our reviewing. At times genuine comments to get trapped erroneously in Akismet. We understand it is frustrating not to see your comments immediately, but it's better to be late than see all kinds of Spam here.

  55. Why Hindus are being converted in name of caste by missionaries?

    ====================================

    The missionaries have no particular method to bring people to the flock, to their own flock. They employ any means that is convenient and that will work. This argument that because we have all these varnashrama bheda etc., even though we don't want this, we want to get rid of this, but that is not exactly the reason why there is conversion. In North Korea there is no Varnashrama, in Japan there is no Varnashrama. In South Korea the Buddhists are really highly disturbed. It was Buddhistic state. Now it is no more Buddhistic. In the South America there was no Varnashrama. All of them are Christians. In North America there was no Varnashrama. In Europe there was no Varnashrama. This argument that Varnashrma is the reason for conversion is not a valid argument. Conversion will go on, because they are motivated and they are inspired, they are evangelistic, they have to convert, they have to bring the people to their own religion.

    They (missionaries) have to, they will show any excuse, they will advance (any argument) and then they will go about doing their job. Therefore we should not fall into their trap, the particular trap; this is the reason why conversion takes place. It is a trap. We should not get into that trap. We should go about doing what we need to do. We should educate our people and as all the Mahatmas have pointed out, all things we need to do we will do, but at the same time let us be aware that this is the only reason why there is conversion and there are some other reason. You don't need any reason. The only reason conversion takes place because you are not a Christian, you are not a Muslim. There is no other reason. Understand this….

    — Swami Dayananda Saraswayti

  56. Dear Mr. Sivacharan,

    First of all please explore who is creating a ground conducive for conversions?

    A person or a community which doesn't get respect in its own circle/faith will always try to find solace in another environment, be it a new place or even a new faith. But there is no guarantee that embracing a new faith will always bring a desired postive change. May or may not.

    Before we start comparing other faiths with diseases as above, we should look inwards and reflect as to how we have been treating fellow human beings since ages.

    It is so rediculous to note that an idol gets purified by sprinkling holy water and chanting of hymns but that process is not applicable for humans for bringing them at par with 'upper caste' and give them respect due to them.

    So long we remain shackled to casteism there is no deliverance for Hinduism.

    I would be more keen to know from the enlightend people how this evil of castiesm can be eliminated from our society?

    Experience of an educated person at the hands of other 'educated persons' is good enough an indication of this man made scourge which has been plaguing us even today.

  57. I would like to say that conversion from one community to another for whatever reason ought not to take place. As Sri Datta ji has intimated to belong to a specific community is ones samajik dharma. This cannot be changed. If you are born into a Hindu community that can never ever be changed. Simlarly persons born in other communities also cannot change or altar this fact. Your birthplace is a testimony to it. However, a conversion of the heart (mind, spirit, soul) can never be stopped. This is a persons personal belief. Therefore a person can change ones belief

    without having to change ones community.

    Changing of communities was perpetrated by missionaries who believed their culture to be superior to all other cultures. Hence, when they landed on the shores of India they began to propogate their teaching of Christianity. Please take note that it was not the teaching of Christ but the teaching of Christianity. For them Christianity meant Christ even though Christianity is alien to the Biblical culture. (This is still very prevalent today). They have failed to realize that Christianity is a North European culture whereas that of the Bible is Asian. Therefore our Hindu culture and the Biblical culture have many similarites. However, those who considered Christianity to be the superior culture saw every other culture to be wrong and inferior. Therefore those who believed them began to change their communities. This was what all Hindus and Christians alike were taught to believe that in order to be a devotee of Christ one has to give up ones birth community belong to another community and reject ones culture to embrace another culture. How sad that from then onwards we have had this hegemony of the Western culture like a yoke placed over our necks. This was especially seen after the British left India when many who believed this myth became carbon copies of the ones who ruled over them. Today in the21st century it is not much different. We just need to be in Metropolitan cities like Delhi and Mumbai etc or look at the kind of ads on TV to realize that many Indian people still believe this myth, especially our young generation. We need to see a resurgence of our Hindu culture.

    To be a Hindu is ones inaleable birth-right and cannot change but in whom you believe this is a matter of personal choice. To be a Hindu and a devotee of Jesus is not mutually exclusive of each other as is popularly believed. To be a Hindu and believe in the Nirgun Brahman is not wrong even when one doesn't believe in devi-devtas. If moksha is the highest of the purusharths then how can we believe in devi-devtas who if by some merit accrued by them are for a time in swarga and when the merit will be exhausted have to come and take birth again and continue to strive for moksha? Moksha should be the goal of life. We should be like Nachiketa who wasn't prepared to accept transient things whether from this world or from another but eagerly sought for moksha. The Srimad Bhagvadgita looks down upon those who seek for swarga where there are only transient things (II.42-44). Can the devi-devtas give us moksha? Therefore to put ones faith in the Nirgun Brahman and accept Jesus as His Avataar and the Sadguru who came to join the jeevatma to the Parmatma is ones personal choice. Therefore you can be a Hindu and be a bhakta of Sadguru and express your devotion to Him using all the rich and vibrant Hindu cultural forms and symbols.

    Therefore true conversion of the heart doesnt mean a change of birth community and/or culture but a transformation seen clearly by ones lifestyle of walking in the path of love and humilty of Sadguru Ji. Let us all stand together to fight to rid our society of the evils like hatred, corruption, casteism, dowry deaths, female infantacide and foetacide etc, etc and put all our efforts into seeing a brighter Bharatvarsha for ours and the succeeding generations.

    OM Shaanti !

    Swami Muktanand

  58. For ensuring that we don't fall into their trap we have to ensure that we treat fellow Hindus with respect and not in the way our friend Amrit has explained his experience in post no 59.

    Failure to do so will continue to provide life to such traps and we will continue to complain about conversions and threats to Hinduism.

    I appreciate another opinion that what is being followed in the name of Christianity is not what Jesus stood for but it is Paulinism.

  59. Mr . Gurunath,

    Using people for one’s own idealism (which they will never live it out in their personal life, but except others to live up to it) or religious agenda is a crime against humanity. I wish those who took effort to bring back those Hindus back to their community will address their tangible needs, which forced them to change their religious allegiance. Conversion and re-conversion are very easy thing (to fullfil some religio-political agenda) but involving with the people in their day to day struggle with active participation is the real testing ground to show how far one is serious in implementing that idealism/agenda which he sets for others. It is well said that: No one ever lived above his creed.

    Dayanand Bharati

    Bangalore, Gurukulam

  60. mr Gurunath Ji,

    I do not see your comments anymore, are you out of the discussion.

    let us carry on the discussion.

  61. very very great news .This is not not ending this is only starting .This is going to happened every where in the world .

    world becoming hindu world because hinduisim only solution for the world which is suffering for terrerisiom.

  62. himvani,

    we are not able to see all the comments in this comments box,

    please let me know.

    mr. goutam

  63. very exicitng news and it will encourage other peoples who are working for same thing to get back Hindus who were convered.

  64. This is from

    an interview with Bikram Choudhury published in the March 2007 issue of

    Little India magazine, which calls itself the largest circulated Indian

    publication in USA. The title is "I Save People's Lives", the introduction

    reads: "Who doesn't know Bikram Choudhury? The flamboyant yoga guru has

    revolutionized this ancient practice with his famous Hot Yoga. How owns the

    famous Bikram's Yoga College of India, a fabulous mansion in Beverly Hills,

    scores of classic cars which he lovingly restores–and a reputation."

    I copy for your enjoyment only the last four questions and answers.

    Q. You are 61 but you don't look like it at all.

    A. No, everybody says I look 35–and I feel like 17. My body is not more

    than 25. University of California Medical Center checks me once a year and

    they say my body is like that of a 20 year old athlete.

    Q. What are your exercise and diet secrets?

    A. I do yoga three times a week and the other days I workout in the steam

    room. I eat one meal a day and it's a very small meal. I don't eat breakfast

    or lunch. I eat only four things–meat, fish, eggs and chicken.

    Q. So you eat no fruit or vegetables?

    A. No fruits or vegetables because they are all chemicals. The body never

    accepted them, and never digested them. There's a Hindi saying–Ched wale

    matke mein pani dal rehe ho–you are putting water in a pot with a hole in

    it.

    Q. But won't one get heart disease?

    A. Not if you workout like me. Vegetarians die quickly. Look at what

    buffalos eat and what tigers eat–and then think of what the tiger looks

    like and what the buffalo looks like!

    [A happy day to all those who think all yoga is the same and solves all

    problems.]

  65. Great work. It is sure to be followed by other persones who were converted to other faiths by misleading promisses.

  66. Casteism is there in Indian muslim and christian religions too. You have Dalit muslim and Dalit christians asking for reservation /quotas.

    It is societal issue, IMHO, not a religion based one. Lastly, caste has no place in modern India.

    Thanks and best wishes to Mr. Ajai Srivastava for bringing it to the public and Mr Tarsem Bharti for his work.

  67. I do agree with the plain observation of Swami Dayananda

    Swarasati concerning the evangelization of the Christains.

    Perhaps, he may be the only one person among the Hindus with a missionary zeal. I have heard him speak in Kerala, he used to come to my home town Manjinikkara and gave series of lectures

    about Hinduism (in Mathoor Temple). He could motive Hindus

    of our locality to be strong Hindu believers. (This was about

    40 years back)

    Jesus Christ has given a mandate, rather the last commission before his rapture " to go and preach the gospel". Whatever

    persecution may be faced with, the evangelization process has to continue. And, I am very particular that it must be done

    in love and respect, not by any other short cuts.

    Let us all continue our debate in mutual respect, and learn from each other.

  68. HInduism is a way of life and not religion. Please be reminded that none of the true Indian language would have a word to describe religion as the West or the Muslim world knows it. Essentially, if a person converts to a religion leaving Hindu Dharma and if he/she wants to come back its 'shuddhikaran'. Its not a reverse conversion. Has anyone heard of the expression Hindu Missionary? You have not. …because there is none. The 'Mission' of Hinduism was never to increase the breed. Sanatan Dharma tells you how to lead life. thats all. Its as old as humanity..now if someone is going to call Humanity…then it would stretching it too far is it not?

  69. It was a very intersesting subject.I could not stop with out writing few of my thoughts here.

    I am a Christian but a Hindu in my religion.I have been foolowing Lord Jesus teachings in my life.I was send away from my home because of this.I am surprised these people returning to their former path, this is nothing new.How sad is they became Christian to get somthing and when they could not get "something"

    they returned to their old way of life and living.

    I believe a true Christian die for thier faith,as the history talks about it from the times of Romans.

    Nobody can change a Christian who has a living experience with Jesus Christ.Hindus also need to understand that Christianity is not US or England matter but a matter of Heart and everybody has right to become Hindu or Christian with dignity!

  70. Jai Hind

    Dear Hindu (Indian) Brothers!

    I have been through all the comments posted. Mr. Gurunath was insulting Christian and Muslim faith very well. I think they are the "Noble Thoughts which were coming to him from all directions from Rig Veda".

    May ALLAH help him to achieve the truth and keep him away from the present day devils ( VHP, RSS, BAJRANG DAL and others) and expand his breast for seeking truth

    Warm Regards

    Esa

  71. As this platform is being used for mud slinging on religions, HimVani cannot permit this. HimVani does not endorse any religion or promote hatred towards any religion. The original post is about a news of Dalits being converted and reconverted. Nobody here seems to be discussing about them and suggesting ideas for improving their lot so that they do not become gullible to any religion whether be Christianity, or Hinduism or any other. Hence HimVani will have to close the discussion here.

    Thanks for participation.

    You can send in your comments to info [AT] himvani [DOT] com

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