Conversions in Himachal/ and Reservation in IIM entrances


    On HimVani, (earlier known as clubinfonet) there have been discussions on missionaries trying to convert Hindus in Himachal. Some of them were concerned that everyone has the right to choose his/her religion. I feel, conversion is a dangerous trend, as mostly it is not the so-called upper castes that are targeted. It’s the so-called lower castes that are being influenced upon.

    Also, there have been debates, whether there should be reservation and Mandal-II should be protested upon. Firstly, I feel Opposition in Parliament in India is weak and is just there to see how they can grab power. They have been most of the times been quiet on issues, which they are expected to raise. There opposition seems to be against Sonia Gandhi and not towards the general policies of the government. However, we are not debating Sonia Gandhi here. It’s a separate issue altogether. But we expect the Opposition to lead from the front and show the way to the students to protest against reservations. The opposition from students is fragmented and may not reach the target. It needs political momentum.

    Mandal-I did see some protests. But fell short of becoming a revolution, mainly because of the lack of a leader. The protests were fragmented. Rajiv Goswami showed the way, but the protests were direction-less. Today, we need the support of the Opposition in Parliament and show the way to the students to protest. But it seems too busy to find out who their real leader is — Rajnath, Advani or Vajpayee. They also seem to be too busy with their yatras. They also seem to be too busy to find out if Jinnah was a secular or not and did Advani make a right statement on Jinnah or not. Today, they don’t seem to be an Opposition in Parliament. They seem to be Opposition to Sonia Gandhi. However, coming back to the topic, I’ll take the Conversion and Reservation issues individually.

    Ashish Puri on the HimVani said, “Everyone in this nation has right to choose his/her religion and also if one really understands his/her religion well, nobody else can influence them.” Right that everyone has the right to choose his/her religion. Wrong, that everyone really understands his/her religion well. And wrong again that nobody can influence them.

    Let’s take it point wise. Long time back Swadesh had sent a mail on the scientific significance of the rituals, we as Hindus do… Why do we put a lal teeka (sindoor, roli, kumkum, haldi — all have different properties and energies), or a chandan teeka, or why do we ring the bell or blow the conch or offer water to the sun? As Hindus, we’d been following them blindly since childhood without knowing the significance and we never seemed to question our parents. Some of us though did. And parents sometimes had no answer or had half baked answers. For many, Hinduism is a religion. But it’s not. Hinduism is a way of living. The religion we follow is Sanatan Dharma. For many, religion is God and whom we worship.

    Secondly, missionaries have been targeting mostly the soft spots, the suppressed and the ignorants. Mostly, in Jharkhand or Chhattisgarh, or Bihar, the converts are tribals who’d been easy targets and influenced groups. And then there are the alignments been made — so called lower castes and upper castes. As far as my study goes, many of the so-called low castes in Himachal, and amongst them, many have been financially strong also have been converts, as they’d been socially ostracised, not allowed to enter temples, or draw water from public taps, natural water springs and have been treated as untouchables. Remember that many of them are financially well-off. These people have been soft targets for the missionaries, because these missionaries promise them respectability in the society along with the lure of more money.

    I personally know one gentleman from the so-called lower caste who’s a convert and has been elevated as a Father/priest by the Evangelists (a sect of Protestants). He’d been given a huge mansion in Sundernagar (Near Mandi) and the charge to convert people. He in turn too had been targeting the soft spots. Once, I asked him why he got converted. He had many misconceptions about the Gita and the Sanatan Dharma or Hinduism. He pointed out to me that, one, he was fed up that while they weren’t allowed to touch the palanquins of the deities — gram/kul devtas and were not allowed to enter the temples, at the same time, they were asked to do the donkey’s work for the devta — like contributing wheat/rice grains, pulses, money in cash, wood as fire-fuel, carrying — the tents, the devta’s dhol and nagaaraas, during the Jagra, Jatra, Shaant, Bishu, Sankranti and other social festivals and occasions. At that time nothing was untouchable. But once it’s in the possession of the so-called upper-castes, these very grains and money become pious and should not be touched by these so-called lower caste people. They then cannot even enter the devta’s kitchen. They cannot make any offerings to the devta directly. It has to be routed through some other so-called upper caste person. These nagaaraas and dhol could reach the devta as Ganga Jal is poured over them. If any of the so-called upper-caste person strayed and ate beaf etc., he was made to undergo penance with some puja and sprinkling of Ganga Jal over them. His argument was that, if they were so impure, why could not they too be made pious like the so-called upper caste people by some penance and puja and sprinkling of Ganga Jal over them.

    Secondly, his wife had been ill for long and the devtas or their mouthpiece — the malis had fleeced many a khadus and bakras as offering and sacrifices from them, without his wife getting cured. The devtas, reasons for his wife’s ailment always were that his wife is possessed by some supernatural element — sometimes, by other devta, sometimes by some daayan, sometimes by Bhutbish, etc. Christianity offered him recluse from all this horror and also offered him respectability by getting off the label of belonging to a particular caste from his forehead. And thirdly, his wife too was cured by the prayers, some Christian priest offered for her. (Although I doubt these prayers; as most of them are energy healers — Reiki — I feel, which irrespective of any religion, anyone can do, who has learnt the art. And the same is being done in guise of Christianity. There are many Tibetans too, who do Reiki, but they don’t mix therapy and religion, which I feel these missionaries are doing. What they do is mostly Reiki, I believe.)

    Here both ignorance and influence has been used to convert people. One, yes is free to choose one religion but not through wrong information. Conversion cannot be allowed without telling the merits and demerits of it. Conversion should not be done, without telling what good the person already possesses, and what he risks by converting. We see, many Westerners studying Hinduism and the scientific approach to it and adopting Hinduism. Few of the examples are Henry Ford’s great-grandson Alfred Brush Ford; Madonna, Britney Spears, etc. But I doubt, if they follow it religiously.

    How Hinduism is scientific: The lal teeka… It attracts the energies/rays from the sun. Similarly, the chandan teeka offers a cooling effect and attracts the right energies/rays from the cosmos and sun. Similarly, offering water to the sun in a single flow/dhaar raised to your forehead level, refracts the sun’s rays forming a prism on to your body. The sound of the conch kills the germs in the vicinity. However, these are small examples. The asna in which we sit in our prayers forms a pyramid. Triangle is the highest energy attractor. And with this pyramid, no energy is lost from the body. Similarly, while we touch the feet of our parents, we draw energy from their bodies and while they bless us with their hands on our head, they transfer their energies, while it forms a complete circle.

    There are many such examples… Exhaustive list can be provided, if people demand it. Please request in your comments. I’ve nothing personal against Christianity or Islam. I’m a tolerant Hindu. And I respect each and everyone’s faith and belief. While talking to a Muslim friend of mine, he too told me of the same concept, during namaaz… Why they get up, sit during the prayers, and wipe their face. It’s again based on the energy effect. Every one is entitled to his belief, but following anything without reasoning too should not be allowed.

    And to stop this rampant conversions, we have to remove this ignorance. We have to give equal rights to everyone. And I strongly feel, that this feeling of looking upon someone cannot go till reservations are there. While laws talk of equality on one hand, it divides on the other. I follow it in the subhead below.

    While I believe, the Constitution framers had in mind to give opportunity to the subdued and ignored, they were right to some extent. However, there was also a provision to phase out reservation with time, considering that this ignored lot would come at par with everybody. However, what has happened — reservations have only gone up. If reservations have to be there, the benefit should be withdrawn for the creamy layer of the beneficiaries. Reservation, if it has to be there, should (The statement can inflame anybody, So let me repeat, IF IT HAS TO BE THERE. The stress is on IF) spread across all castes and religion now. There are many poor people from the so-called upper castes as well. If Muslims are getting the benefit in one state, Hindus, like in J&K should get that provision. They too deserve reservation. A benchmark should be set, that after reaching a particular socio-economic status, they’ll automatically, disqualify for the benefits. They’ll be treated at par with the general category.

    There have been cases, where almost three generations have reaped the benefits of reservation. Reservation, again, IF IT HAS TO BE THERE should be limited to one generation. There was an article in the Hindustan Times lately, where it talked to a few reservation beneficiaries in IIT Delhi. They cannot walk as commoners as they carry the stigma of the quota seat that eventually labels them as from a particular caste. While they themselves go through a complex, others cannot remove from their minds that they are special or not so special. On the other hand, there have been students who are there because of the quota and not have been very strong in studies. They have flunked year after year. But they are here, because there was a quota and the seats had to be filled, however, some of them got very low marks in the entrance. And they still are getting low marks. Some of them are in one class year after year. They constantly deal with the stigma of a failure and of belonging to a particular caste. Some of them felt, it would have been better had not they got the admission only. At least they could have pursued what they were good at. And most of them are there because of peer pressure…. parents and all. I feel, it should be the other way around. There should be reservation for the highest achievers, irrespective of any caste, class or creed. How it can work, needs further imagination.

    I’ve taken utter care not to be abusive to any caste, religion, or sect of the society. I haven’t referred to any caste by name or in a derogatory manner. I’ve used the word “so-called” to interpret how the castes are referred. I don’t have any political or religious associations and am not a propagandist. I have put up ideas to the best of my knowledge and ability. The idea is to debate on the issue and not to speak in favour of any religion or caste. However, I own up that I’m against ignorance and conversion without the converts knowing what they possess. They are only told what they’ll get. I understand that under the Constitution anybody is free to adopt any religion. I put up this disclaimer, as I speak in a public forum/domain and run the risk of being misinterpreted and misquoted and run the risk of libel and legalities and defamation.

    Still, if I’ve unintentionally hurt anybody’s sentiments or faith, I apologise to them in advance. And to the best of my knowledge, I accept the forum generally does not subscribe to individual’s ideas. The incidents referred here are true to my knowledge and the priest concerned, currently is preaching in Rohru Tehsil, Distt. Shimla, where a few years ago, he was badly beaten up by a Hindu religious group. While I protest conversions by targeting the ignorant, I also protest the manner the religious group dealt with. I feel the religious group should work to remove the superstitions and should work to inform what we possess and the significance of what we are and bring the so-called lower caste people into the main fold and treat them at par with equality — allowing entrance to temples, public water springs, etc.

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    1. The Choice is Clear:

      The terminology to refer handicapped persons have been changed to Physically challenged persons. Why cannot the SC ST BC OBC XYZ be called Economically challenged persons. That will atleast give an apparent feeling of casteless society. The other suggestion is categorize society into BPL and APL meaning Below Poverty Line and Above Poverty Line and tax the APL to pay for BPL. There are thousand intelligent ways of addressing the problem and one idiotic way i.e reservation based on caste lines.

    2. “Missionaries have been targeting mostly the soft spots, the suppressed and the ignorants. As far as my study goes, many of the low castes in Himachal, who though have been financially strong also have been converts, as they’d not been socially ostracised, not allowed to enter temples, or draw water from public taps, natural water springs and have been treated as untouchables, though they’d been financially well-off. Christianity offered him respectability…”

      –Though I do not subscribe to the entire post but this is something which is completly true. The main reason for the conversions is the practise of untouchability. Dividing living people on the basis of there caste by birth is criminal in today’s time. Above all the number of these so called Dalits is far more than the so called upper castes and these very people are looked down.. This issue has been discussed in detail on the Shimla Hangout board… ( Just browse through msg number 841 – 949

      If we recall a while ago the major component of anti-Muslim tirade was that Muslim Kings converted the Hindus by the sword, and this was the major component of the propaganda, which formed the base of the anti Muslim sentiments in the social common sense. Before we go into the historical process whereby Islam spread in India lets have a look at the opinion of Swami Vivekanand on the issue (Collected works- Vol. VIII, page 330). Says Swamiji “Why amongst the poor of India so many are Mohhamedans? It is nonsense to say that they were converted by the sword, it was to gain liberty from Jamindars (Feudal lords) and priests. Islam, contrary to the popular belief came to India through the Arab traders who used to visit the Malabar coast for trade, and it were the Hindu Kings who built the initial Mosques to sustain the trade. Also there are still communities in the coastal areas who practice mixed, Hindu and Muslim, rituals.” Before anyone jumps to any conclusion here, see the full article below.. The Conversion Debate..

      As such Hinduism is based on caste system. It is not a prophetic religion, and there by spreading it is not the norm of the religion.

      There are some good articles on the conversion topic.. Here are the links..

      To be or not to Be – The Conversion Debate

      Varsha Bhonsle, talks some sense here.. Hinduism’s corpse

      A little off topic but how people are fleeced at our relegious places bringing bad name to the relegion, Scams at Sangam & Vindhya-Vaasini Temple, Allahabad

      Lastly, before anyone jumps to conclusions about me, just want to clarify that I am an agnostic bordering on the atheist in that I consider all organized religions bunkum, some being more bunkum than others!


      The Mall on the Net.. SHIMLA HANGOUT

      Moderators Note: Shimlahangout is one of the oldest egroup for himachali’s specially for shimalites.


    3. I have stayed in Kerala for three yrs for my studies. Are you aware of these Miracle net and other cahnnels on cable, they are so influencing that people just tend to move towards christanity.

      Even i have attended one in reality and believe me i was highly impressed. These are called retreat centres, and they heel you from all sorts of problems or any disease or anything and they actually. Even i was suffering with hyper migrane problem and it was cured. I myself experienced holy spirit, but tht does not mean i will convert my self to christian. Im a pure brahmin n i will remain the same.

      Even we shuld put up some camps for hindus which we actually not doing. Thats the main reason hinduism is far behind than other religion.

      Even in mumbai there were around 80% of Hindus n rest Muslims. N now its jus the opposite. This is really a serious matter n we shuld really do somethin abt it.

      Not by wordings but by action.

      Varsha Sharma

    4. Thanks for writing such a nice article. Considering in mind, there are over 300 members on VOH group and almost all of us (more than 90%) are from different villages in Himachal. It means we are from 300 different village in Himachal.
      Here are some of the steps that we can do as individual or as a member of this group:

      1) All of the individuals in this group who are un-married, let’s take an oath today that no-one of us will take dowry in their marriages.

      2) Next time when we visit our villages, we will NOT practice touchability. Whenever we go to our village we will call SC/ST people in our functions and feed them in the same rows(Panth) where the people of higher cast are sitting and we will also attend any functions that these people(SC/ST) will organise.

      Guys, Let’s not be Hypocrats and practice what we preach. I had already practiced step 1 and now I volunteer myself for the second step.

      I request all the Active/Inactive members of this group to send their opinion on these steps. You can also suggest more steps that you guys practice in your life .

      Do we have guts to practice what we preach?

      Swadesh Katoch

    5. Hi Surender & Other VOH Bros.,

      Thanks for sparing your time and writing such a valuable write-up.

      I welcom the debate and suggestion on this topic.

      NB: I got married 11 Years before and proudly says that I HAD NOT TAKEN ANY DOWRY…and it will really nice if all unmarried in VOH family do so…

      Untouchability: Its the TERM which is difficult to explain to others….and had defamed HINDUISAM A LOT……


    6. I agree with Surender and Swadesh and applaud their efforts. Thanks Surender for writing and putting almost all the issues in such a good way. I agree with you completely. I respect all the religions myself but I don’t like the missionaries trying to convert Hindus.

      And Swadesh has put some good points in fighting this. But it’s not only unmarried individuals but I guess everybody has to stand up for the dowry and untouchability issue. Even if you are married you can take the oath to not give dowry in your daughter’s marriage and not to take dowry in your son’s marriage. Above all, we have to bring up the kids in such a way that dowry doesn’t remain an issue.

      The untouchability issue well…why do we even see other human beings as SC/ST…I don’t understand. Surender had put it right and I agree with him that the people who are taking advantage of reservation don’t need that. And now reservation should be on the basis of economic conditions. Even upper class people are below poverty line. But what I personally believe is that reservation system should stop now. If we need to bring people up to a certain level we have to give them basic education and education here doesn’t mean school education only. And quota in higher education level is bad for them too and for the society too. Well, these are my personal opinions and I don’t mean to offend anybody by that neither christians nor SC/ST people.

    7. Hi Karuna/Surender/Varun,

      Thanks for your responses. But we are living in a world of hypocrats. We Indian love to send useless mails on any subject. But whenever you ask them to think creative or do something positive, we become INACTIVE members.

      I still remember when I sent a mail on How Sonia Gandhi could become PM in Bharat? There were over 50-60 mails and we kept on fighting (ok …. debating) for over 2 weeks.

      I still remember there were over 50-60 mails on Anuj Sharma last month.

      But why we never see any mails from these 300 members, when we really need mails from them.

      Here are some of the mails that I can remember of:
      1) 2-3 months back, I had sent a mail with 18 points to create jobs in Himachal. I had spent so many nights to come up with those ideas. I am spending money from my pocket to implement couple of points from that list. We can create thousand of jobs in Himachal even if we could implement couple of points from that. Hardly 2-3 people replied to that mail.

      2) Couple of week back, I sent a mail for ‘Project computers’. I got suggestions from only 2-3 people.

      3) I saw couple of mails from different individuals against reservation for SC/ST but when I asked them to take oath against any touchability then these members suddenly became INACTIVE.

      It is always good to become critic for anything but Practice what you preach. It is NOT good to be “Bin Paise Vakil”.

      We always complain against our politicians. But we have become like them. We only say and do nothing like them. We are over 300 people in this group and 300 people can do a lot of things together.

      Together we can bring change in the society. We have NO right to sign the petition against reservation bill if we are practising touchability when we visit our villages. We have NO right to write BIG mails against Bharat Govt. for bringing this law if we are NOT ready to change.

      While writting this mail, my motive is to awake you people to do something constructive for our state/our culture/our nation. Even I am NOT doing anything constructive but I may change once I will see other people coming and joining me.

      Together we can make a difference!!!
      Swadesh Katoch

    8. Hi friends,
      Have been reading the on this issue for past couple of days and I do see the practise still being followed by people in many parts of Himachal, especially in Rohroo Tehsil, a place (Rohroo) somewhat 125-130 kms away from Shimla, where just moving 10-15 kms into the interiors, one can find people who may never know anything about the outer world, but when the question arises to discriminate on the basis of castes and the religions, you may fall short of words while debating with them .

      My own experience on this has counted many so called educated people within the area just rushing to get converted. And when you ask them the reason, the only answer you would get is: “We are fed up with our devi-devtas always demanding sacrifices (no menu mentioned). And now we want something, where we do not have to pray and pay too.” Though we cannot forget the fact that Himachal is famous all over the world for being the land of devi-devtas.

      There are certain people who are willing to do any damn thing to keep up the culture and traditions. But can the evils be preserved? What one needs to preserve are the goods, and not the evils.

      I do not have any issue to pin-piont on any individual as we do posess a right to follow any religion and are free to practice it, but what itches is — why sould one run a
      campaign to convert others. As far my knowledge can go, a Hindu never
      converted or forced to convert.

      Where we should be looking to unite people, but the conversions are only
      dividing people further.

      In interiors of Himachal, people still believe in the caste system. In some parts, they won’t allow any lower caste person to even enter their “Khaliyaans”. And if any upper caste is coming across the road the lower castes have to step aside (and one cannot stand towards the the uphill. One has to stand down-hill.) till the upper catse passes by untouched.

      Such examples are really promting people to convert.

      My question here is — Is conversion the answer / solution to all / and the only option with these people?


    9. Few very interesting things related to conversion comes to my mind:

      1) Every religion is equal and God is same:

      No religion actually accept it . They all say it but never accept it.For each of them they are the best.(As far as we Hindus concern even Gods fight among themselves to prove who is best. Remember that Santoshi Mata story where girl suffers because other Goddesses find it difficult to accept the fact that girl is not worshiping them. Lots of other examples are there….

      It may sound something bit strange ,even to me, but when i write the above paragraph ,It at once came into my mind :

      Is not it case of conversion where other Goddesses try their best to convert the Girl. But in this case fails.And why they fails ,because Girl has strong faith in Her Goddess.

      This story also tells that in each period ones who are more powerful, more stronger have always tried their best to bring the people in their folds like Goddess Laxmi and others did in story.

      So guys nothing new . this is an old age story.Its up to each individual how he reacts and in which fold he wants to belong.

      And up to other groups that how they can make him belong to their fold.


    10. Hi Guys,

      A very strong message in the mail from our fellow group member.We all dream of a prosperous, a developed and a corruption free Himachal and of course India. We all have a common goal is what I understand from these discussions.

      Every individual has different perceptions and different ways to go about it.Very true that individuals who still practice untouchability and casteism have no right to sign petition against reservations for ST/SC/OBC.Again comments like “people are hypocrites” because they don’t take oath in front of 300 people of this group might work against the spirit of this group.I guess the message, Practice what you preach, is applicable to everybody here.What really required is that we must stop at least our friends, relatives and educate them against untouchability and casteism. 300 individuals can definitely make a difference.


    11. I could not resist writing down my views here. Before you read down, assume here the disclaimer that Surendra put earlier. No hard feeling please.

      Religion and politics being my favorite subjects , I could hardly ever restrain myself from expressing my opinions if the forum permits.

      To put it politely, I loath religion. I wish we could do away with all the religions on the planet. That would probably pave the way for a peaceful coexistence. I believe the fundamental appeal of the religion is self identification and most of us fall victims to it because of our otherwise insignificant life. Many people tend to confuse religion with spirituality and because of our worthy goal of spiritual gratification , we automatically adopt religion. I agree that no religion is better than any other. That is because I believe all of them are equally bad. The only purpose of religion is to help the king/ruler to rule the masses. The religion has never helped anybody individually. If we can enforce the common law with our enforcement forces, we would not need the force of morality with Supreme enforcer (the God) to make us behave. I want to quote some philosopher here ( sorry, forgot the name), “I am not
      sure if God created the man in His own image , but I am pretty sure the man created God in his own image
      since He seems to hate the same people as we do.”It is normal for us humans to convince ourselves of
      the superiority of our own religion but looking just under the skin , you would find all the religions are
      similar in their purpose and value. One trick to maintaining religion is to teach it to kids early i.e. start at an age of 4. At this time the long term memory starts developing but logic is not mature enough. In other words , a perfect time for engraving something in memory which otherwise would be rejected by a logical reasoning. Many religion do use this technique in combination of fear/reward of hell/heaven to permanently infuse religion into kids. These kids once having grown up with religious culture would
      never ever have the courage or understanding to get out of it. I would also like to quote here ..of all the people , Angelina Joeline ,” We all are raised in a box, once we grow up, we should get out of the box to realize that the world is much larger and diverse than your box.” I think I can go on and on this but I want to end it here with this simple statement.. Consider a person with religion.. apply the statements below and find for yourself if any could be true.
      1.) A person believes that a human with elephant head could exist.
      2.) A person believes that son of God resurrected after death and ascended to heavens with his body.
      3.) A person believes that a holy person received revelation from God via an angle.
      If any person who could believe in any of these fables without doubt or questioning is certainly either 1.)
      devoid of logic or 2.) overtaken by fear.
      Our mind is very strong. Our mind can make up things.
      A strong belief can make a person do things that a strong logic can’t. Case in point: many people can
      kill for many reasons, but a person can only die for a faith.
      Take this .. What makes a person believe that drinking alcohol is bad but killing a Jew is good. Right. The answer , of course, is religion. If you take the religion away from this person , you could not convince that person to as much as hurt other
      human , much less kill.
      Please grow up from ” my religion is better than others” psychology. Just scratch the skin and you would find enough evidence that all religions are fictitious. I would be happy to give some pointers.

      Politics: since religion took so much space , I would keep it short.
      The reservation based on caste /religion is a good dirty-politics. Good because it gets the votes without having to do any work: dirty because it lacks the spirit of justice. The idea is social justice but reservation is a bad mean to get it. The ends do not justify means. You can’t rob a bank just because your intentions are to help the poor. We ought to expect the politicians to pick up the easiest way to get the votes.
      I want all of us to find a way not to get angry on anything. We don’t have any empirical evidence to
      prove that the meritorious students always makes a good employee or administrator. Besides , why would I
      think that if a bright student is deprived of admission to a college , he would not be able to use his talent to get ahead on his own on some other field. Our anger is based more on the perceived feeling of discrimination than the actual
      discrimination. Believe me , it is like squeezing a balloon full of air : You press on one end , it expands from the other. The able people will always be able to channel their creativity and talent. I have done some serious thinking on it and have found myself able to get over the anger.
      I always expected my parents to supply me first with their limited resources before helping others. I never thought that others may need the help more than I. Don’t you think that me being their son deserved it? Or should everybody on this earth have equal right over everything on this earth? Should US take all the oil from Africa because the local people have neither the ability to extract it nor the need to use all of it?
      My point: the discrimination only exists in our way of thinking. If the roads are built for everybody ,
      why only the people with cars are allowed to drive on it. Is that not an undue favor to rich people? As a
      matter of fact anything can be manipulated to create a feeling of deprivation and discrimination. Please understand the reservation to be one such thing and get over it. Eventually it will die off without us even noticing it.

      Note: I have used he/him (male gender ) on my examples but thats is only to bypass the limitation of the
      language. I am not a male chauvinist. 🙂
      Sorry for the long blabber…if you actually read this far..

    12. Moderators: please initiate a separate thread about religion. I would be willing to argue why the religion is a fiction perpetuated by vested interests. I would be willing to respond to members’ queries ,if there are any.
      Thanks – manjeet singh.–>

    13. i think if people really want to escape from clutches of caste system.. they could adopt more simpler forms, emerged from hinduism buddhism, jainism, or sikhism etc.. not a great idea though, but ..good enough to counter the inequality thing ..ofcourse enlightning the people about equality is a great idea ..but a long term measure .. but former can act as a short term measure .

    14. Conversion is a beautiful word but is being misunderstood by many Christians as well as Hindus in this world. Bible teaches that God will convert our heart that is so sinful and has become hard to a new heart that is pure and soft. A heart that loves and follows the ways of God the creator of the whole world. God is the only one father and Master of this whole world. It is not just India or western countries…God is one God for this whole universe….heaven and earth and all that is in it belongs to Him. He is the creator of this whole world. I myself from my very childhood had no faith in religions but believed more in God and people as just human beings. God never made religions. I do not know about others but do know about myself that my life was in darkness and I needed light. Jesus said,” I am the light of this world and he who follows me will not remain in darkness but will receive light in his life” John 8:12. It was in 1978 that I started following Jesus …not Christian religion….and my life got transformed from darkness to light, Life being changed from darkness to light is the real conversion and Jesus is the same God who created this world and each one of us and that is why He has this power of conversion. All you need to do is believe in Jesus. The sad thing of the Western countries as well as Europian countries is that they are missing the true message of Jesus. Indians too are failing badly to see the truth of conversion as people fail to see that Jesus is the creator of this whole world. It is not just India. He is the Mastor of the whole world. Today every one needs to come out of the darkness to the marvelous light of the creator of the world. Conversion is from darkness to light.

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